Amateur Radio and Firearms

[Scott]

The apparent disparity is resolved quickly.  Start a gun conversation on a local repeater and watch the voices come out of the woodwork.

Hams shoot.  Hams have guns.  Many hams CARRY guns on the regular (lol as I write this in my NRA Pistol Instructor shirt with a heavy automatic pistol on my belt).

If you're not trained to safely own and operate a firearm, you're not even sort of remotely somewhat vaguely serious about anything to do with prepping for anything.  You're a target.  You're a field of resources waiting to be harvested.

Ask around your local ham community and find out where guys are shooting, where they took their concealed carry classes, what calibers they like and why.  Join a sport shooting club, hunting club, cowboy western club, local SWAT team, I don't care.  But learn how to shoot WELL from a certified instructor.

"but I was in the XYZ branch of the military!!!!1!!1!!"

I don't care.  I get those students all the time and most of them can't hit the broad sides of barns from the INSIDE.  The military S!U!C!K!S! at teaching pistol marksmanship.  Find an instructor, take the class, and get a valid license to carry.  THEN ACTUALLY CARRY.  All the time, everywhere you go.  Carry a reload.  Carry two.

The first rule of gunfighting is to WIN.  Cheat if necessary.  The second rule is to bring a gun.  Bring two guns.  Bring all of your friends who have guns.

The overlap between amateur radio operators and people who understand that this country's freedom was won by armed civilians like us is overwhelming.  In a recent NRA Basic Pistol class I taught, 10 out of 13 students were amateur radio operators I'd recruited from local clubs.  Most had prior experience, others just recognized the importance and relevance.

Don't just shoot often.  Shoot WELL.  Learn the fundamentals of basic pistol marksmanship, and master them.  When you're done with that, go to an appleseed.  Go to a CMP class.  You like to build antennas and fix radios?  Build a home-brew AR-15 -- I built one last year and it's formidable force.

Stacks of canned food, bottled water, and gel cell batteries with solar chargers are all AWESOME.  A skilled marksman can take it away from you in half a second for about $0.30 or less.

[Scott]

Rifle first, rifle last, rifle always.

A buddy of mine likes to say that the knife's job is to fight you to your handgun, and that your handgun's job is to fight you to your rifle.

[ConfederateColonel]

Scott said: "Rifle first, rifle last, rifle always. A buddy of mine likes to say that the knife's job is to fight you to your handgun, and that your handgun's job is to fight you to your rifle."

There is a lot of wisdom in that, but there are also a number of exceptions. As with much of life, it depends greatly on your own very specific circumstances. The finest weapon is of no use if you don't have it when you need it, and as a practical matter you can't carry a rifle and full load out while doing the necessary daily chores. Much also depends on the terrain. If you're out west or where there are wide open spaces, then a rifle is pretty much the only way to go. Where I am here in the southeast, thick and heavy brush means that there are very few places where seeing anything over 100 yards away is rare. A good sidearm and the skill to use it becomes the more practical choice.

My point is NOT to put down the rifle - it is, without question, king of the hill. My point is that circumstances and terrain dictate the need - not military doctrine. Don't accept one-liner statements as immutable fact - look carefully at your own situation and decide accordingly.

[Jonas Parker]

The first rule of gunfighting is to WIN.  Cheat if necessary.  The second rule is to bring a gun.  Bring two guns.  Bring all of your friends who have guns.

I agree, Scott. If you find yourself in a "fair fight", you miscalculated!

[White Tiger]

Before I learned how bogus the concept of "fair" was - learned many, many, many lessons about the arbitrary value of "fairness"....mostly because I allowed others to define exactly how to be fair...

Unless you're the one defining what fair is - you've already given up any and all strategic advantage. Critical thinking skills aren't really taught...for the most part they're learned.

As far as Amateur Radio & Firearms...ummm...yeah. There's an obvious link, but it has the potential to turning people off. I've had more of those conversations go sideways in a hurry. There are more folks bound to think me odd for storing food, than owning guns...but just about the time I assume that to be the rule...I get those who look shocked when they find out (usually over time) I have food, guns, ammo AAAANNNDDDD HF radio.

[piggybankcowboy]

I can't lie, this is where my personality gets in the way, and leaves me torn on this issue.

I'm not unfamiliar with guns, by any means. My family has multiple rifles and shotguns between the four of us, simply because we hunt deer and pheasant whenever the opportunity presents itself. I personally haven't been out in about two years, so granted, I'm probably a rotten shot at the moment, but it would not be difficult to for me to put in some practice on the weekends. So, in that regard, no, I am not "anti-gun" or anything.

Thinking of someone coming after me or my family frightens the hell out of me, though. And I'm completely ignorant as to how I might react when my target is shooting back at me. So, how do we train for that? Is there a method, or something I can do mentally? I ask because I don't feel like waiting until the STHF and someone starts knocking on my door with the business end of a weapon only to find out that I curl up in the fetal position and go to a happy place (seriously, though, I don't think I would do that, but I want to react quickly and efficiently and worry about the fear later, so how would one train for that?).

[White Tiger]

I seem to recall a WWI study that was done regarding efficiency of the marksmanship of US troops during training periods versus being under actual fire...no matter the proficiency of the shooter during training sessions - it dropped dramatically under live fire.

The US Army review stated that they needed to make boot camp training more like the real thing - they chaged the circle targets to human sliouettes - and the proficiency shot up...when they switched to human-like targets the proficiency shot up again...

Don't know if that will help you - but my dad the Marine - swears by it.

[gil]

There is what is called "Force-on-Force" training, which tries to approximate reality as much as possible. Simunitions are used. They go bang, and they hurt. I think there has to be some consequences (i.e. pain) in realistic firearms training. Otherwise, getting shot means nothing. A paintball gun can serve that purpose.. Paintball is great, but not as usually practiced, without concern for tactics, as a game. A friend of mine was organizing great painball parties on his property, but I stopped going because it was a "free-for-all" even though we had teams. The briefing was basically exchanging a few words before storming ahead.. A game.. Some people use Airsoft, great, but again, if considered a game, it might do more harm than good.

Some private companies offer "Force-on-force" training. I don't think they are cheap...

I used to compete in IPSC shooting competitions. Probably the closest to reality in the civilian world at the time. Even so, it was not realistic, as there was no concern about cover. Where I learned the most was my Systema class, taught by an ex Spetsnaz soldier... We also had an ex Navy Seals instructor who attended and did organize a great seminar during which we never shot one real round. (You probably have seen one of these guys on TV, he was on a few famous shows). I also learned that Marksmanship is a small (but important) part of firearms training. Gun handling, movements and tactics make the bulk of the training. We did use paintball guns. There are a few tricks that once understood can really make a bit difference, that is, being dead or alive when the smoke clears. Such as how to use cover, "cutting the pie," using angles, keeping your shooting platform while moving, always presenting a muzzle to the enemy, etc. I am no expert, but I am glad I was exposed to that stuff.

I have no idea how I would react to shots fired either. What I have been told is that training does help, and that when bullets fly, your abilities falter to the lowest level of  your training. Something to ponder.. Without any training, don't expect much. I remember an atrocious video of a police officer who stopped an old guy in a truck. The man was a crazy Vietnam Vet. He grabbed an M1 rifle and advanced on the cop, barrel up, shooting. The officer had seen it, he shot back but then retreated to his car, and was promptly shot to death by the, still advancing, gunman. The old guy had intent, drive. He had the training, he aimed, he stayed focused and cool.
I have had once an AK-74, which I thought had a round chambered, pointed directly at me. You can feel you guts tightening.. "Pucker factor," the instructor called it. Not pleasant.. The instructor had not pulled the bolt back all the way, so no round was pick-up when it flew back forward. It made the classic "cha-chang" noise though, and I really thought it was ready to fire. I probably turned really pale... I don't think you can know how you'll react before it really happens.

I think that one needs to train to perform with heart pumping, adrenaline rushing and being out of breath.. Once you can do that, you have a much better chance to survive.

Gil.

[White Tiger]

There are training seminars offered by Ignatius Piazza/Front Sight...believe they offer classroom, range, and force-on-force scenarios - never been but they have tempted me.

I think the facility is in Nevada?

Here's a link - it's supposedly priced like a family vacation (or so the spin goes):

http://www.frontsight.com/landingpg-1.asp?src=gaw&kw=frontsight&gclid=CI_3xIKo4bICFQTznAodv34AVg

[gil]

Hum, the web site doesn't say much.. I would check the guy's background carefully, and make sure he is mentioned in gun magazine articles, not just ads..

Tim, my old instructor is supposed to come here in February for a personal protection seminar, and that will include hand-to-hand and gun stuff... He is the real deal.

Gil.

[raybiker73]

I know I've heard of Frontsight. Is that the training program run by Massad Ayoob?

[gil]

Rings a bell, I think so. Now that would be a good place. Or Gunsight, created by Jeff Cooper...

Gil.

[White Tiger]

That is awesome Gil - what price is "reasonable"? I might be interested - are you going to tell me you're Paratrooper, next?

[gil]

Nah, never been in the military. I did have a bad motorcycle accident in 2004, broke my femur and dislocated my shoulder. I could not afford the physical therapy, so I picked up Russian martial art, "Systema." I had never seen anything like it!

The seminar this time will be oriented towards personal protection. Usually they cost about $200 to $250. If you are ever tempted to learn some really efficient hand-to-hand combat Russian style, we have a class here, Monday/Tuesday/Thursday night. Sometimes I do teach beginner's mini seminars, usually on Sunday afternoons, when there are enough people ready to go.. The regular class is taught by a certified instructor.

For learning hand-to-hand combat quickly and efficiently, IMHO there is nothing better than Systema. Some such knowledge should be part of any prepping plan.

Below is the guy who got me started, he would be teaching the February seminar:

Cool stuff, huh?

Gil.

[White Tiger]

Very interesting...any package deals for two?