Do you REALLY need that ham license?

Started by Jonas Parker, September 08, 2012, 12:01:09 pm

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RadioRay

\\

Well DANG! I sure didn't see THAT one comin' !


Moo-ha-ha-ha!


de RadioRay ..._  ._
"When we cannot do the good we would, we must be ready to do the good we can."  ~ Matthew Henry

emergen

January 08, 2015, 07:10:39 pm #61 Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 07:12:41 pm by emergen
That must have been a prepper who bought a plane and then decided to learn to fly solo for the first time when the SHTF lol

Or lean't to fly by reading a book 😆

KK0G

Flying an airplane really isn't that difficult. Landing an airplane is even easier - in the 100 plus years of mans conquest of powered flight, we have a 100% perfect track record for bringing planes back down to earth after breaking it's surly bonds, not one single time have we ever left one up in the sky.  8)
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

KK0G


gil

QuoteBut what about the ones who have spent countless hours playing Microsoft Flight Simulator? Or what is that other one X-Plane.


You could potentially learn to fly that way, but your first few flights would really be gambles. I'd give anyone trying it a 50-50% chance of survival. If you made it a few times, then your odds would improve greatly. I learned to fly ultralights first and got about a dozen hours of dual instruction, though I had ten hours of glider instruction before that. I soloed from a beach, which was pretty cool. My first "real" airplane solo was from an international airport in a C152, but I already had 400hrs of three-axis ultralight, so it really wasn't a first solo. I have seen people teaching themselves to fly and survive, but many more don't make it... I wouldn't suggest it.

CB is great. That's how I got into radio in the 80s. Kind of limited and unreliable for long distance contacts though, but I would definitely suggest anyone to have one.

A Ham radio license is so easy to get and cheap, it really doesn't make sense not to.

Gil.

cockpitbob

Quote from: gil on February 13, 2015, 12:48:29 am
QuoteBut what about the ones who have spent countless hours playing Microsoft Flight Simulator? Or what is that other one X-Plane.


You could potentially learn to fly that way, but your first few flights would really be gambles. I'd give anyone trying it a 50-50% chance of survival.

Gil.
I agree.  Looking at it in reverse, I have over 1,000 landings in small planes, but I always crash a flight simulator.  And of course landing a plane isn't one of those thinghs where "if at first you don't succeed, try, try again." :o

KK0G

In regards to the practicality of "needing" the legal ability to transmit on ham bands in a lawless post TEOTWAKI; it's been said here on this forum and on many others many times before and I'll say it again - the legality of it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. The real issue is having the practical real world experience to effectively use ham radio in a high stress survival situation, if you're not doing it now, you won't be doing it then. The way to get said practical real world experience is to get licensed and then be active on the bands.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

KK0G

vwflyer

February 13, 2015, 01:40:28 pm #67 Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 01:58:37 pm by vwflyer
Speaking of learning to fly on Microsoft Flight Sim, I'd like to tell a story about that. It's not really that this story proves anything. It's more just the fact that I like telling it. I finished my private pilots training 16 or 17 years ago when I was still living at home with my folks. After I had the ticket in my hand I acquired a copy of Microsoft flight sim and a USB yoke and rudder peddles. After teaching myself to fly the simulator (many crashed landings, Cockpitbob is right, it's a different beast when you don't have g-forces or peripheral vision cues to help). I then proceeded to teach my younger brother how to fly the simulator. I taught him to fly it just as my flight instructor had taught me to fly the real thing. I made him coordinate his own turns and not let the simulator auto-coordiante. I taught him to fly a pattern and set up on approach, when to lower the flaps, to pitch for airspeed and power for glide slope, etc. just like I had learned. Finally he went down the local FBO for his first real flight lesson. He did so well with the initial part of the flight that the instructor let him  fly the approach, he did so well flying the approach that the instructor let him flare, he flared it so well that the instructor let him touchdown. On his very first real lesson in an actual plane he had flown the entire approach to touchdown without the instructor touching the controls. It is possible then but it isn't like he did it all on his own, he did have a pretty sharp flight sim instructor if I say so myself.  8)

As far as a ham license is concerned, I second what KK0K said. I had my General class ticket for 10 years before I got an HF radio. Even though I had the license for HF I only had VHF/UHF radios at my disposal so I didn't know the first thing about actually operating HF even though I was licensed. When I did get an HF, the learning curve was steep. I made several attempts at making antennas and trying them. Some worked better than others. I'm still learning the propagation variables and how different antennas work at different ranges, on different bands, at different times of the day, etc. Just when I think I'm starting to get it all figured out it changes from summer to fall and fall to winter and everything I thought I knew doesn't work anymore and I have to learn it again. Different modes have different capabilities too. I recently started doing PSK31 and am amazed at how well it travels. I also just started learning winlink e-mail over HF and it too is a learning curve, figuring out which stations are reliable on what freqs. at what time of day. All this experimentation and learning is very time consuming and I have a long way to go yet before I feel like I'd be real conferrable doing it under pressure and less than ideal conditions. I wouldn't be doing it at all if I didn't enjoy the learning process but I do and so it's worth it to me.

So like KK0G says, it's not about the piece of paper and the legality of operating without it after a crisis. It's about having the freedom to train with your equipment, extensively test your equipment and modify and improve it as your experience grows with it. And doing all this prior to really needing it.

A flight simulator was able to raise my brother's performance to a point where he could land a C152 on a 6,100 foot long flat paved runway. Today, I fly turbo-206s into some of the shortest and most rugged mountain airstrips in the world. I don't think MS flight sim alone could prepare anybody for this kind of flying. The performance level required for this far exceeds what training in a flight sim can provide. My passengers want to know that they are flying with an  experienced mountain pilot. It's no different with radio. Messing around with CB now again will give you the experience needed to get an HF rig on the air but sometimes more than that is what is required.

KK0G

Now, back to the subject of flying (what can I say? I like flying 8) )


I've been having a blast since I earned my private, flying the club 172 all over the midwest - I managed to rack up 15 hours of flight time last month, the majority of it cross country. The club set up is pretty much ideal - it's cheap (cheap being a relative term because nothing is cheap in aviation), and few other club members are flying much at all so the plane is available to me pretty much whenever I want it. So my question is, with such an ideal situation why the hell am I seriously contemplating buying an airplane?! ;D
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

KK0G

vwflyer

February 13, 2015, 04:04:17 pm #69 Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 04:06:14 pm by vwflyer
I'm afraid that your question KK0G can't be answered reasonably. There is no reasonable reason why you need an airplane. Rather, it must be answered medically. You see, like every other pilot out there you suffer from a psychoses. You have a disease of the brain. Unfortunately, this disease has no known cure. Like so many other incurable diseases you can treat the symptoms but once in the blood stream you can't get rid of it. Like a persistant cold score, you just never know when it will flair up again. You can put up a good front, a facad of normalcy but just under the surface you are raving loon. It also acts as an addiction, the more you feed the urge the more it controls you. You must always go higher, lower, faster, slower, further, shorter. Good enough is never good enough. This is why I am convinced that the airman medical examinations are a farce. The mere fact that you are a pilot should be more than enough proof for the medial examiner that you are not right in the head and in fact are unfit to touch the controls of an aircraft. 

gil

QuoteThis applies too with radios, if I'm defending myself and others and my family don't want to go out and get a HAM licence then what am I supposed to do? The only logical thing, give them all CB Radios.


That is a good point, as getting family members to get a Ham license is nearly impossible. In that case, CB might be the only option. Same thing for FRS or MURS radios in the U.S.

As to the cost of a Ham license, $15 for ten years in the U.S. isn't an obstacle. The cost of an HF radio isn't much more than a CB either. Take the MFJ-9420X 20m HF radio for less than $300... It beats any CB any day on reliability, because of the lower frequency. You can also get the 9440 model on 40m. Used gear also get be bought for a song.

Gil.

KK0G


Quote from: vwflyer on February 13, 2015, 04:04:17 pm
I'm afraid that your question KK0G can't be answered reasonably. There is no reasonable reason why you need an airplane. Rather, it must be answered medically. You see, like every other pilot out there you suffer from a psychoses. You have a disease of the brain. Unfortunately, this disease has no known cure. Like so many other incurable diseases you can treat the symptoms but once in the blood stream you can't get rid of it. Like a persistant cold score, you just never know when it will flair up again. You can put up a good front, a facad of normalcy but just under the surface you are raving loon. It also acts as an addiction, the more you feed the urge the more it controls you. You must always go higher, lower, faster, slower, further, shorter. Good enough is never good enough. This is why I am convinced that the airman medical examinations are a farce. The mere fact that you are a pilot should be more than enough proof for the medial examiner that you are not right in the head and in fact are unfit to touch the controls of an aircraft.


Guilty as charged :-)

Take this evening for example, I just got home from the airport - which by the way has become my second home - because after work I discovered that I just HAD to fly or I might die. I had absolutely no destination in mind whatsoever and no justifiable reason to fly other than to burn some holes in the sky while I watched the sun set over the horizon. I climbed up to 3000', pulled the power way back, leaned the engine and waited for the sun to go down so I could practice night landings - which I also have little justification for since I almost always plan my cross countries to avoid night flight if possible.

I've noticed these symptoms of needing to fly seem to flare up whenever I'm at work, a family gathering, shopping, etc. and the sun is shining through a clear blue cloudless sky with a gentle breeze that coincidentally happens to be lined up with the runway at my home airport.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

KK0G

NCGunDude

February 14, 2015, 07:51:24 am #72 Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 03:16:28 am by NCGunDude
Freax, very good. My empathy is with you on government control.

You're correct about going Galt. No issues there.

Communities are what will survive in post TEOTWAWKI, which may be fast approaching from a banking and finance standpoint, or worse if it spills over into a hot war.

Gill mentioned several options. Another one you may not have considered is satellite repeaters. You can hit one of those for 15 minutes or so with a baofeng and a 2m yagi, at least what i've seen on the Tube of You.

We take for granted a lot of things here in the US, which we'll lose if we don't exercise them.  73's

gil

I hitchhiked across Australia around 1992 for a couple months... Had a great time, but of course it is different from living there, and I suspect things have changed quite a bit since then. All guns were taken away after that and the government became more pervasive and socialistic in nature. I would not live there now, but I could have then, from what i saw... Lots of empty space for sure.

Getting into sailing now, I have read about people getting in trouble down there, boats confiscated, pets put in quarantine for weeks, etc. and for frivolous reasons. Lots more regulations to abide by, and it is too easy to miss something when you are just visiting. So if I ever get to cross the Pacific, I will be skipping Australia for a more Northern route. It is unlikely that I'll ever get that far though :o

The question is: Where are the last free countries on this earth? We can't complain too much here, but things are changing for the worst too. Unfortunately it seems like the more free countries are the corrupted and dangerous ones, sort of the last Wild West places. I'd rather slip someone a $100 bill under the table than getting arrested for some stupid law I had no idea about... Even if that means not being able to find toilet paper easily... Leeches and thieves are taking over the "civilized" world, and I saddens me to watch it happen. It's easy for me though, I am single and can go anywhere without much stress. If I had a family to take care of, I would feel trapped by the system.

Radio is something big Brother does not like. You can't shut it down or control it. Ham radio operators of course don't like to make waves. It's just a hobby, with an undeniable usefulness in emergencies, which is why we still can enjoy it, but for how long? This is why it is important to promote it now and get a large user base with voting power. Not that voting makes a big difference mind you, but it might just buy us some time. That is one reason to get a license. CB users have no voice as a group. As much as I don't like the ARRL, they do serve a purpose.

Right now focus is on controlling the Internet by defining it as a utility. What's next? I hope they fail with that one. If the trend continues, I will be voting with my feet. I want to travel anyway, become a permanent tourist. Hopefully when the SHTF, if it does, I'll be sipping a Cognac and smoking a cigar on some remote island 8)

Gil.

KK0G

What's the most free country in the world? That one's easy - the United States of America, no question about it. Freedom is literally what our country was founded on and against overwhelming odds we managed to win a war against the tyrannical world super power of the time to gain that freedom. The basis of Americas founding is unprecedented in human history, no other state has ever been formed that gives all rights to the people and only limited power to the state. Do we have our problems in this country? You bet your ass we do and we've lost a lot of freedom over the last two centuries as we've strayed further and further from what our founding fathers handed down to us. Even so, there is still no other place on the the planet that enjoys the freedoms we do here in the U.S.A., there's a reason why millions of immigrants have come to this country and continue to do so today. Would I ever leave this country for another? I guess I can't say with certainty that I'd never leave as who knows what the future might hold, but I'd venture to wager that the chances of me ever leaving my country are pretty damn slim.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

KK0G