Let's talk medicine.

[piggybankcowboy]

Being a brand new ham, there isn't much I can offer in the way of radio talk due to lack of experience right now, however, there is something I feel I can bring to the table that would be beneficial to the group.

I have both experience and training in medical emergencies. I keep up on my general first aid training, including CPR, and I have one year of nursing school under my belt (this, however, is on hold while I serve as primary care-giver to a sick family member). In the last two years, I have been present in four medical emergencies where I delivered aid until EMS showed up (one seizure, two instances where a drunk bar patron opened up their skull, once on a table and once on a concrete parking block, and one child who started having a severe allergic reaction to an undiagnosed peanut allergy. Yes, they all lived). On top of my schooling and the classes I've taken with local organizations, I've done my own studying and collected resources on the subject of medicine and medical emergencies.

What I often notice on a lot of prep/survival forums is a lack of emergency medicine and general medicine talk. This is not to say there is none, but I feel like it's something that needs to be discussed more. On top of some misconceptions about proper methods and responses to certain situations, there is also a lot of misinformation about medicine in general floating around out there, largely due to the alarming number of claims made by media about foods and drugs, coupled with snake-oil salesmen posing as herbal doctors.

Keeping one's self healthy in the first place is obviously where everyone should start. As you all know, I've taken steps to quit smoking, and have started exercising daily. However, it doesn't end there.

There is no reason for any adult, prepper or otherwise, to NOT be trained in basic first aid. That's my opinion, anyway. Classes are cheap, if not free in many cases, and the information is pretty darned good to have stowed away.

There is also no reason to be lacking in vaccines. You should visit your doctor and make sure you're up on all the major shots at least, but one that I feel people tend to overlook is getting your hepatitis B cycle done. I was required to do mine before starting school, and it ran me about $45 with no insurance, and as I understand it, it can be done for cheaper now. In a perfect world, you're really only at risk of getting the hep-B virus if you come into contact with the bodily fluids of someone infected with it, and some people are completely unaware of being infected. Well, put that in the context of a disaster scenario. *You* could get injured, a small cut, whatever while trying to help someone else who might be infected, and now you are at risk in a situation where proper medical attention is spread very, very thin, if it exists at all.

Even simple things like knowing how to administer an epinephrine shot are important and could save yours or someone else's life one day. Of course, we don't all have to run out to take a phlebotomy class to learn how to handle a syringe, since most epinephrine injection kits are designed for ease of use. But still, it is a good idea to familiarize yourself with them.

I'm assuming you all have some sort of first aid kit put together, including the basics like bandages, antibiotic ointments, sterile pads and needles, CPR masks, and the like. Some may even have a stockpile of antibiotic pills, however, watch the expiration date on those. I'm not saying they will not work past that date, but some do break down over time and lose potency, so they may not be as effective in fighting the infection, which actually runs the risk of making antibiotic-resistant bacteria strains down the road (this is actually happening now due to misuse of antibiotics by both medical professionals and their patients)

Anyway, let's have an honest discussion about this sometime. What's in your kit? Is there anything you recommend that you think people may have overlooked? Do you have any questions I, or someone more qualified than me, might be able to help answer?

[gil]

It's the little things that will kill you.. Problems that would be quickly solved by a trip to the pharmacy or the doctor can quickly turn into life threatening ones without the support of society. I recently had an infection that would have quickly killed me had it not been for antibiotics and a dentist. Things went from perfectly normal to "real bad" in two days. Of course it was over a week-end, as all tooth aches happen on week-ends. Fortunately I did have antibiotics at home. I read a story of a young man who a similar problem and was prescribed antibiotics and pain killers. He didn't have enough money for both. He picked the pain killers, and... Died. If you want to survive doomsday, take care of your teeth. They are too close to your brain for comfort.. Have some local pain killer swabs in case you get a tooth ache.I am convinced a bad tooth ache could push someone to blow their brains out.. Antibiotics are a must, so do your homework on that. It is well known that all preppers have fish tanks: http://www.calvetsupply.com/category/Antibiotics, so take care of your fishes...

Another killer is diarrhea. Of course nobody wants to talk about that, but it will kill you. Not the diarrhea itself of course, but the dehydration. Children are even more at risk. Store some pills for that.

Check out The Patriot Nurse on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePatriotNurse

Without society or some kind of support system, life expectancy quickly drops to about 40yo. Most of us here are past that... Keep that in mind... So, yes, learning about medicine is excellent advise. Thank you.

Gil.

[piggybankcowboy]

There is nothing I disagree with in her video. Antobiotics touch a particular nerve with me, simply because most people don't use them correctly *now,* so why should they in any other situation? My favorite thing is how people stop taking them the day they feel better, when there are typically another 5 - 7 days worth of doses left to be consumed. What happens here is that yes, while the infection is weakened to the point where you are no longer showing symptoms, the fact is that it's still alive and has not been defeated yet, and risks returning to it's full blown state.

I also love how she mentions people taking antibiotics for colds, haha. As convenient as that would be, antibiotics do nothing against viruses. A good way to remember this is by thinking of antibiotics as a selective poison, and you use poison on living things. Viruses are not, per se, alive.

Regarding teeth: you're right.  They LOVE to have issues at the worst times. However, I'm less worried about them being close to my brain than I am about the link with the neck and heart area. Your dental health and heart health go hand in hand because of the easy transport any sort of infections in the mouth would have access to. Of course, this can also happen with the brain, but the blood-brain barrier makes it a bit more difficult (and also makes it difficult to treat when an infection does occur).

Careful with the pet meds. For the most part, what's offered on CalVet seems fine, but as Patriot Nurse mentions in the video, watch the markings and the doses. If they are different in anyway way, avoid them. An easy way to do this is to compare products on the internet now, before purchase, with their human equivalent and double or triple checking that info whenever possible. Then once you order the product, I would probably mark it clearly as safe for consumption (so a family member or friend knows, in case I am not around) and keep a log book of expiration dates, doses and pill counts.

[Frosty]

Good discussion, thanks piggybankcowboy

re:antibiotics.  Good to have, in quantity, imo.  Use under professional advice if at all possible.  "Symptomless plus 3 days" is a good general rule for duration.  I wouldn't be too concerned about brewing up the next MRSA in your household if the SHTF. CalVet is fine, but there are other distributors that offer a wider selection too.  Don't forget antifungals and antiparasiticals either, SHTF might be a messy place with a lot of 3rd world diseases. 

Fluid replacement is critical for sick/injured people.  If not orally, then subcutaneous, intravenously, or rectally.  The equipment and supplies aren't too expensive, and even administering an IV isn't too difficult to learn, but I'm going with subcutaneous as it's easier and less chance of complications.

Lots of good youtube videos on first-aid and minor medical procedures.  Not to suggest it's a replacement for training, only another resource.  Looking forward to hearing what others are doing or planning.

[KC9TNH]

Whether one has to bugout or is just trying to come through the other end of a natural disaster, a fine & worthy topic. I like (?) gil's mention of diarrhea. Natural disasters seem to go hand in hand with impure water, as does being in the boonies and thinking that purification regimens don't apply to you. (Try that, let me know how that goes.)

I have various kits at various levels with me for various things. (Take care lest you think that epinephrine is the be-all for sting allergies; it's contraindicated in many circumstances. The person who's living with the reaction needs whatever they need in their kit based on medical assessment of their doc.)

My vehicle kit got an upgrade awhile back after taking a hard look. It's kind of amusing tale on myself but worked out. Were out on back property at friend's place shooting. Daughter just back from (3rd, 4th, forget) trip to 'Stan asked if I had some Tylenol or something for little niece who was apparently going through that phase of starting to deal with cramps. Didn't have any in the car, and we were in a remote location blowing through a boatload of various kinds of ammo. So she, rightly, climbed right into my stuff and ripped me a new one and I re-thought what should be in the vehicle.

In the end there are means to take care of severe bleeds & punctures and some training in their use in a separately accessible compartment in the kit, with the main kit progressing from bottom to top in terms of more benign, because the little boo-boo's are the things that happen most often, but are sometimes incorrectly dismissed and become larger problems that won't go away.

Various versions of these things are on me depending upon circumstances, including when vacationing. People see the words "tropical paradise" and focus on the 2nd one, when medically they'd do well to remember the first.

Good topic.

[piggybankcowboy]

Speaking of the "little boo boos," that can be really sneaky with regards to infection, there are other things along those lines that should be mentioned.

The assumption these days, with most people (and again, because of the media coverage not giving complete information on a condition), is that an infection like say, cellulitis, is something you're only going to get from a bug bite (probably spider). Well, okay, it's maybe more likely, but no, that is not the only way to contract infection.

In fact, you don't need to experience any inflicted injury at all, to get one of those "minor" infections that can turn into a major one, if left unchecked.

There are some simple preventative measures to help protect one of the major entry points for bacterial infection: your skin. Ideally, you want to have proper equipment for any job where scrapes or lacerations are possible, but work with what you have when you have it. Keeping things like a pair of heavy duty work gloves in your bag or vehicle would help protect your hands in the event that you have to remove dangerous rubble. I'm at a loss for other solutions, in case you don't have gloves, but I suppose if you're wearing an extra t-shirt or something, you could tear it and wrap it about your hands like mittens to try and prevent any small cuts while clearing whatever.

Something you can do now, and it sounds silly, but see a dermatologist for advice on keeping your skin moist. I suggest seeking professional advice on this if it's within your means, because many skin lotions out there actually make your skin dependent on using them to retain moisture, plus everyone's skin is slightly different. Personally, I don't want to be reliant on having 20 gallons of Lubriderm when the STHF. There are other ointments and lotions, that can be discussed with a dermatologist, on top of keeping yourself internally hydrated (which, provided the ol' physiological machine is working properly, should translate to your skin being well hydrated and not needed that extra boost of lotion). Point is, moist skin is less likely to crack, especially around the finger and toe nails or high abuse areas like the elbows and the webs of skin between fingers and toes. If these (or other) areas become dried out and crack, well, they become entry points for all sorts of nasty stuff.

There are also proper ways to trim your nails to avoid the nail itself injuring the skin around it. Ideally, you want to cut your nails more or less straight across (with a little curve, but not too much). What a lot of people do, including myself in the past, was to cut the "corners" of the nails down to where it almost meets the skin because those "corners" were sharp and would possibly catch on things. What I and others should have been doing is using a file on those corners to take the edge off, but leaving them jut out a bit from the tip of the toe or finger. I had to learn this lesson the hard way by accidentally cutting the corner down too far, and then having it grow *into* the skin on my toe, which is both painful and ripe for infection.

Just some simple tips on when you do encounter a crack in your skin:

1. Clean it immediately with soap and water. If you've got rubbing alcohol, use it in moderation, but know that it can dry your skin out even more. I've heard it suggested that a thorough rinse with water after using rubbing alcohol can help prevent the affected area drying out, but I don't see any conclusive evidence of this. Personally, I see rubbing alcohol/peroxide as a huge risk in survival situation, only to be used when soaps are not available, but that's my *opinion* based on experience of it drying my skin out horribly, despite water rinses.

2. Use bandages and antibiotic ointments, no matter how small the wound. If it's an open wound, it's a open door. Ideally you'll want to have a mix of precut bandages and a bandage roll that you can cut smaller pieces if needed, so as to not waste a bunch of bandage material on a small cut.  It needs to be covered, yes, but remember to ration what you use.

3. Change those bandages daily, too. And while you're at it, check the wound for redness, heat, and puss or drainage. These are all signs of infection, meaning you need to take further steps.

I'm sure everyone already knows this stuff, but it never hurts to be reminded. Even with my schooling and training, I find myself stupidly neglecting a minor wound from time to time because I'm too busy doing something else.   This would be a foolish risk in a survival situation, and it would do us all well to just get used to giving them our full attention now when they do happen.

[Sunflower]

Great topic PiggyBankCowboy.  I was in the middle of CERT classes when my husband's medical condition got out of hand - meaning he became medically unstable. He is just getting settled late this summer.

It was interesting to me that so much of what I learned at CERT in that short time helped to calm my nerves and update old training I had. Not sure if I did a whole lot differently, but I did have a confidence that I might not normally have. Recently, I found a friend dead. Again, I was rather calm, and I think I did everything pretty much right. Oddly, maybe due to a shock that I was not aware of, I did not notice the "COLD" when I first attempted to take a pulse.

I too use Calvetsupply. I buy heavy on bandages (two bleeder in the house). Bird antibiotics and Vit K for animals (poison first aide) are high in storage bucket. Dr. Doom and Nurse Amy are part of my medicine preps too. Currently, I have thyroid meds and Antibiotics stocked up that were consulted by them. The
other meds will come later. Herbs and spices and garlic as back up help in the meanwhile.

[White Tiger]

It's the little things that will kill you.. Problems that would be quickly solved by a trip to the pharmacy or the doctor can quickly turn into life threatening ones without the support of society. I recently had an infection that would have quickly killed me had it not been for antibiotics and a dentist. Things went from perfectly normal to "real bad" in two days. Of course it was over a week-end, as all tooth aches happen on week-ends. Fortunately I did have antibiotics at home. I read a story of a young man who a similar problem and was prescribed antibiotics and pain killers. He didn't have enough money for both. He picked the pain killers, and... Died. If you want to survive doomsday, take care of your teeth. They are too close to your brain for comfort.. Have some local pain killer swabs in case you get a tooth ache.I am convinced a bad tooth ache could push someone to blow their brains out.. Antibiotics are a must, so do your homework on that. It is well known that all preppers have fish tanks: http://www.calvetsupply.com/category/Antibiotics, so take care of your fishes...

Another killer is diarrhea. Of course nobody wants to talk about that, but it will kill you. Not the diarrhea itself of course, but the dehydration. Children are even more at risk. Store some pills for that.

Check out The Patriot Nurse on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePatriotNurse

Without society or some kind of support system, life expectancy quickly drops to about 40yo. Most of us here are past that... Keep that in mind... So, yes, learning about medicine is excellent advise. Thank you.

Gil.

I bought some very specific antibiotics for my fish and for my birds...ironically some of these will treat the same illnesses I, or some of my family, have experienced in this geographical location!

I also have communicated with the Patriot Nurse - great link - thanks!

PiggyBankCowboy - any suggestions for the best type of first aid/trauma kit to have on hand for our families/groups?

Great thread!

[gil]

Yep, and those fish antibiotics work. I know!

Gil.

[deanathpc]

This has been a hot topic on one of my other survival boards.  Fish antibiotics that is.

[White Tiger]

I guess I should have said I bought them for the fish & birds I intend to have...because...I don't actually have any fish...or birds...

[gil]

Maybe buying a goldfish would be prudent...  ::)

Gil.

[Sunflower]

Don't forget aspirin, extra-strength migraine type excedrine (can't find Excedrine these days on the store shelf). Espon salt is great for soaking out an infection, but can play hard on blood pressure.

I am working on adding Adaptic next (moist non-adherent bandage material). Great for thin skin wounds and terrible surface tears.

P.S. Forgot to mention a recent lesson. Don't try to buy a armful of cold medication, cough syrup, theraflu, etc at one time. In my area, it is not allowed. There is a limit to what the store was allowed to sale me. If you have a big family, and want to stock up on OTC cold meds, then start now. Also, I had to show my ID and let the sales woman enter it in the computer before I could leave the store with the goods in hand! That is the part I was not crazy about.

[deanathpc]

Yup restrictions on those meds now because kids these days use some of it to get high or make other drugs.  In my job I see it all the time.

[Frosty]

Necro post, but didn't think it warranted starting a new thread just to make a shameless plug for a guest post I did:  http://modernsurvivalonline.com/guest-post-how-to-make-injectable-lidocaine-hcl     I think it has some potential 'end of the world' value, but my wife says she'd rather die from gross negligence than be a victim of my medical malpractice.    :-\