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91
General Discussion / Re: Lost at sea 5 months without comms
« Last post by gil on October 30, 2017, 06:54:41 AM »
Thanks for the recommendation Steve.

Quote
There are advantages to each but people MISS the disadvantage on sat-phones,

They also might not work in heavy rain, which of course is a time when you more likely might have to call for help. For a broke sailor on a long trip they might also prove too expensive, and there is no contest between eating and paying for a sat phone...

Gil.
92
General Discussion / Re: Lost at sea 5 months without comms
« Last post by Steve 7931 on October 30, 2017, 06:29:34 AM »
As previously stated :- These two women were not sailors and the what is seen in the reports demonstrates they had neither the training, skill or preparation for undertaking such a voyage at sea.

What is worthy of such reports, is that it promotes both discussion and thought into the question of,  How would I have done it differently.

Those of us who have sailed at sea, will tell you that they take all but the so called Kitchen Sink !!! In multiple backup numbers of everything , just in case !!!

Many publications exsist on the subject of Ocean Sailing, but if I had to recommend just one , it would be :- One Hand for YOURSELF and One for the Ship.  Written by Tristan Jones  an ocean going single handed Sailer

The book will be a good read also for none sailers, as it will inform and provoke thought on self survival  and preparedness and what is the minimum equipment to have on hand.

After a bit more thought. I may add here how I would have done it differently,  in the meantime what are your thoughts, lets all learn from this event.

Steve.
 
93
General Discussion / Re: Lost at sea 5 months without comms
« Last post by RadioRay on October 29, 2017, 07:39:10 PM »
I did see video footage of the boat and what I saw looked like marine growth along a line near the boot stripe.  That's a common thing to do for people who like to swim (whi I never did, because a human mid-ocean is a "snack", in my eyes...) TO USE A LINE FOR BOTH THAT AND (IF A LARGE LINE) AS A 'FENDER' OF SORTS.The boat did ont appear to be low in the water, which indicates (but does not prove) excess water inside of the hull... 

The mast was basically intact and the 'damage' they reported was on one spreader.  You can sail on several points of sail with one limp spreader OR repair the spreader (the blonDe - amazingly NOT sunburned) said that she built the boat, yet could neither repair nor shorten the standing riggin on that side, NOR sail on a tack to no have that side over stressed.  A sailor could and likely WOULD do that, rather than bobbing for 5 months.

COMMUNICATIONS is still very, very weak in this entire thing.  An HF radio would have done very well.  The Pacific Seafarers net with shore and ocean operators, SOMEONE would have heard from a boat mid-ocean and that close to Hawaii.

"We hit a Force 11 Storm (right out of Hawaii)  and it lasted for days."  Really?  Yet your weather planning missed that giant about one hundred miles or less from THE Major population center in the mid-Pacific.


Their story As filtered through the media IS not adding up, the YouTube videos are not matching with their story of being 'mariners'. We'll know more in time, but likely; the controlled media will do their best to paint then into a mini-series as love bound heroines who fought the sea and won.  Yawn!







 . 
94
General Discussion / Re: Lost at sea 5 months without comms
« Last post by vwflyer on October 29, 2017, 10:47:54 AM »
Quote
usually are leaving your boat and most possessions behind. The EPIRB is designed to save human lives.
Did you see a picture of their boat? The hull looked to be in real bad shape along the water line. Was that just normal water damage? What caused that? The girls said they expected to sink in the next 24 hours. It would be interesting to see if its still afloat out there since they did just leave it to sink. I guess well have to wait for the hour long History Cannel re-enactment to get the fascinating details. The problem is, the History Channel is as bad about getting its facts straight with recent history as it is with ancient history. 
95
General Discussion / Re: Lost at sea 5 months without comms
« Last post by RadioRay on October 29, 2017, 10:32:32 AM »
On the communications front, we've seen the debate of the satellite phone -vs- HF.  There are advantages to each but people MISS the disadvantage on sat-phones, the main one for me is:

1. Satellite phones are designed to require infrastructure. 
2. Sat-phones are a point-to-point method to communicate from one phone number to another phone number : if the call fails for any reason, the sender is heard by nobody. HF radio (radio in general) is a BROADcasting method, heard by many.  So, if in trouble at sea, I want a BROADcast method, receivable by many, not only the front desk at some office.  Many blue water cruiser/sailors carry an EPIRB as a last-ditch rescue beacon and these work very well, but lack the ability to send e-mail or short txt messages with friends WINLINK or Gil's SPOT allows. Of course, once that EPIRB is activated, a huge wave of help is on the way and you usually are leaving your boat and most possessions behind. The EPIRB is designed to save human lives.


>RadioRay ..._  ._
96
General Discussion / Re: Lost at sea 5 months without comms
« Last post by gil on October 29, 2017, 04:04:47 AM »
I only saw the CNN article which didn't have any details. I think we all agree that it was a failure to prepare as far as communications go...

Gil

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

97
General Discussion / Re: Lost at sea 5 months without comms
« Last post by RadioRay on October 28, 2017, 09:56:11 PM »
Mast damagethat's critical.  The articles I read ONLY discussed engine. That's critical and changes my mind on this - for the better. The desalinator was in the other articles and that is a life saver.  As for food -, I always carried plenty, and in a way that I can go everywhere with it -



98
General Discussion / Re: Lost at sea 5 months without comms
« Last post by vwflyer on October 28, 2017, 01:49:08 PM »
I don't think we can fault their navigation at this point. For all we know, they had a working GPS and/or sextant and knew exactly where they were the whole time. They were adrift and at the mercy of the ocean currents for at least three of the five months which is why they wound up so far off course. Their engine swamped during a storm and they couldn't restart it. My guess is that they killed the battery trying to restart the engine and had no way of recharging the battery. As Gil pointed out, they lost communications around the same time, so I'd bet that if they did have an HF radio they killed the battery that runs it trying to start the engine rather than using the battery to put out a distress call. After failing to restart the engine they decided to try and sail the rest of the way, but damage to the mast made maneuvering the vessel difficult, according to one report. I'd say impossible if they drifted aimlessly for 3 months. So if the mast was unrepairable and made sailing impossible we can't really fault them on their sailing skills either. I'm not a sailer, but where they appear to me to have failed is in underestimating the importance of communication and planning with sufficient backups. A way of recharging their battery, perhaps, without the aid of the engine, a spare HF antenna, spare HF radio, and if nothing else, a GPS emergency beacon. The last one should be standard equipment in all sea going vessels today. From what has been written so far, all we can be fairly sure of is that they started the trip with a sat phone (which fell in the water) and a VHF radio. They brought a water purifier and lot and lots of food so they were planning ahead. But like so many preppers, they seem to have overlooked the importance of comms prepping. Two is one and one is none.
99
General Discussion / Re: Lost at sea 5 months without comms
« Last post by Steve 7931 on October 28, 2017, 10:46:15 AM »
I shall keep my ear to the ground, in order to determine more of their story.
I think I heard that they had thee months worth of canned food abord, so they were obviously expecting a long trip.
Even in the south pacific navigation by the Sun is straight forward for those with training, and even equipped with a plastic simple lifeboat sextant, reaching a land mass like New Zeland would not be so difficult.
The moral here is.   Don't go to sea without one and some simple training.

Steve
100
General Discussion / Re: Lost at sea 5 months without comms
« Last post by RadioRay on October 28, 2017, 09:32:15 AM »
It sounds like two people with a lot of money, who bought a power boat ( that happened to have sails) . An engine is least reliable at sea, so I'd never cross thousands of miles of open ocean in a small boat without sails.  The article I read said that they were 'making distress calls for 2 months'; were they ONLY equipped with a VHF marine radio, like they'd use near shore???  IT's entirely possible.  I knew one 'graduate' of a marine academy who depended entirely on her cell phone for coastal 'boating' (she was NOT a sailor). Any ocean crosser - unless they prefer to be fully independent, should have an EPIRB or something like it - hit the button and it's MAYDAY sent into the satellite constellation - then prioritize what you MIGHT be able to take with you when you leave your boat. Any rescue vessel will take you and maybe a bag or two, and leave your boat adrift.

Navigation at sea is double tough.  Cel-Nav (sextant, chronograph, star index and charts ) is the best back-up, if not primary.  GPS is wonderful, especially for trained navigators who fully understand what a marvel it is, but it's politically controlled.  One BANG! on the world scene, and it can be no longer available in your area of the sea. The sun, moon and stars, on the other hand, are beyond political control.

>>>>===> Even a QRP rig and the skill to tap code would have solved this problem. They are fortunate to be alive at all.


>RadioRay  ..._  ._
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