Bitterness on Ham Radio Websites / Thankful for This Site

Started by RadioRay, June 27, 2013, 05:29:36 PM

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White Tiger

It is also determined by those who are NOT apart of its constituency (which in the beginning is usually not greater than 20% - 30% - but this group is completely dedicated group of true believers) - the larger population is apathetic, overworked, under-represented, and overall - in disbelief, if not depressed. It is hard to motivate this type.

It is why most modern counter-revolutions fail.

We have very little cohesiveness because those things we used to have on common, have been eroded from our culture.

We (those of us awake) seem now to be a bunch of lone wolves huddling in our dens, seeking to protect our own.


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KC9TNH

Quote from: White Tiger on July 08, 2013, 01:36:05 PMIt is why most modern counter-revolutions fail.
I think you meant revolution, with the Leviathan doing that counter- thing. True enough, most do - and without external support even after getting folks off the couch - it would be a long row to hoe. Doesn't mean it's not worth doing. The depths of how ugly is has to get is borne out by the fact that Americans have largely not reached their tipping point. When the  money runs out for the constituency it's gonna get sporty.

Of course, they could always see the error of their ways and simply capitulate.
[/sarcasm]
8)

Geek

Coming back to the original topic, grumpiness on web forums, I think we've covered a bunch of reasons for people to be out of sorts.  However, I think at the core people are either cheerful or grumpy.  Personally I prefer to hang around the cheerful ones, whether in person or online.

KC9TNH

Ya know, Geek, you make a good point; we can choose to be either.
*** ACHTUNG! Gil-Warning: Avert your eyes from what follows. ***
Over the extended holiday weekend I used a contest to wring out the KX3 and establish a couple things about some antenna work that's getting done shortly.  One thing they had that I was totally unfamiliar with was this thing called a 'spotter' page where apparently people post & tell each other where Station-XYZ is. I guess DX'ers and contesters use these things all the time.  I already knew that any contacts I made were going to be QRP CW only.

What really struck me was the behavior seen on that spotter page was similar to what's encountered on the fora under discussion & across much of the internet. I think that lack of civility is emboldened when folks have the luxury of not looking another person in the eye. One sees that in the comments following an on-line newspaper article; rarely in a letter they had to sign & send to a newspaper. Most of the really snarky comments were signed by "me" rather than the person's call. I know the difference between stern, resolute, and grumpy. Not being grumpy all the time seems much less tiring.

"Where's so & so?!?!"
'Jeebers, are they ever gonna get up?"
"Is there anyone alive in Virginia?"
"I only need one more for the sweep! CT where are you????!!!!!"

It was comical, but sad.  The stations in states that regularly operated CW?  All fine gents, some I've chatted with before and you could have a brief few remarks while they were working you too. (Frankly it seemed to me that was because most of these contesters' brains were stuck in SSB-only but that's just my two Euros.)

In terms of an AAR on the KX3 and the efficacy of CW it is kinda funny.  Early in the AM I heard a Japan station and answered; that turned out to be a quick exchange, maybe he was just getting ready for the event 'cause I heard him later.  But I was just in & out of the room; not enough free time to tie-down a sked - I'd just pop in, LISTEN, and see what's happening and call, then back outside to work. But I guarantee with 1 thermos of coffee on the first morning I could've swept all the stations if that's all I wanted to do because I wouldn't have been stuck waiting for someone to fire up on a band that reached me via SSB only. If someone was around CW, I'd simply put the amp on standby, flip the coax switch, and dit-dah away. Without CW many others were, quite literally, run aground on a sandbar in a drought.

Then after making the mistake of ice cream w/ fresh strawberries too late at night, I was up in the wee hours and chatted with Deutschland getting a 579. So the KX3 plays well and seems to have no grumpiness attached to it either. (Dang Sugarmares; I'm supposed to give those to the grandkids before handing them back over to their parents...)
8)


White Tiger

Quote from: KC9TNH on July 08, 2013, 04:01:38 PM
Quote from: White Tiger on July 08, 2013, 01:36:05 PMIt is why most modern counter-revolutions fail.
I think you meant revolution, with the Leviathan doing that counter- thing. True enough, most do - and without external support even after getting folks off the couch - it would be a long row to hoe. Doesn't mean it's not worth doing. The depths of how ugly is has to get is borne out by the fact that Americans have largely not reached their tipping point. When the  money runs out for the constituency it's gonna get sporty.

Of course, they could always see the error of their ways and simply capitulate.
[/sarcasm]
8)

I agree whole heartedly with your conclusion(s), but I believe we have been in the midst of a Fabian-esque revolutionary creep for a number of years.

I say Fabian-esque, because the Fabian's are socialist, tending towards a worldwide socialist philosophy, captured by the phrase: "workers of the world, unite..." - while what has been underway in the USA (largely since the war to confront Fascism - WWII) seems to tend towards Nazional Zocialism (sans the designer uniforms).

It is therefore my firm belief that the revolution happened...the counter-revolution was infiltrated, it's leadership commandeered, it's goals co-opted and ultimately defeated...long ago.

To wit: the reason I began prepping - I believe we (as a nation, and a culture) have crossed the line - we are no longer capable of fixing this by "throwing the bums out". Too many of us are tied in some form or fashion to the government - which was the basis for the apathy. The operable, defining phrase from the novel Gil quoted by Ayn Rand is "who is John Galt?" - is a sigh of resignation...for a nearly forgotten ideal, from a bygone era...

...NOT a call to arms.

Sorry for continuing the hijacking, wanted to finish a thought! - forward error correction applied - that is all.

[P.S., if I close with an exclamation point, and a smiley face, does it help make me seem more approachable? ;) ]


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KC9TNH

Quote from: White Tiger on July 08, 2013, 05:21:36 PMThe operable, defining phrase from the novel Gil quoted by Ayn Rand is "who is John Galt?" - is a sigh of resignation...for a nearly forgotten ideal, from a bygone era...

...NOT a call to arms.
Within the context of the novel I would agree.

I also concur that there is no solving this in the voting booth.
;)

Geek

I disagree.  It can be solved at the voting booth, but to do so people need to show up and vote.  The last election had an all time record number of people voting, but it still only represented 60% of the eligible voters.

If you don't show up you really have no basis for complaining, no matter what happens.

gil

Geek and Wes, you are both right. Though there is little hope in the voting booth, since Democrat and Republican candidates are bankers' puppets. Of course nobody wants a revolution, I certainly do not. So, the solution adopted by John Galt is that the producers of the world just throw the towel and go create their own world somewhere else. This is already happening in Europe, where entrepreneurs move to other countries. Not only for cheaper labor, but to avoid exhorbitant taxes used to pay for a myriad of social programs. French actor Gerard Depardieu even renounced his French citizenship when the government decided to levy a 70% tax on high income and went to Russia! More freedom in Russia? Well, it's getting there.. I would love to see big businesses, affluent inventors and businessmen all move to an inviting libertarian country! I'd be on my way too.. You guys could call me DX!

Gil.

KK0G

Back to the original subject 8)

Perfect example of why I love this forum; this thread is now 3 pages long, we have multiple differing opinions (although admittedly not that different) and so far not a single case of name calling, personal attacks, pissing matches, thread lock down, etc, etc. Just a group of like minded individuals in an intelligent conversation agreeing on some points and disagreeing on others and allowing the subject to sort of flow from one related topic to the next.

Now back to the regularly scheduled thread hijack............ what topic were we on? LOL ;D
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

KK0G

Geek

Quote from: gil on July 08, 2013, 07:19:19 PM
Geek and Wes, you are both right. Though there is little hope in the voting booth, since Democrat and Republican candidates are bankers' puppets. Of course nobody wants a revolution, I certainly do not. So, the solution adopted by John Galt is that the producers of the world just throw the towel and go create their own world somewhere else. This is already happening in Europe, where entrepreneurs move to other countries. Not only for cheaper labor, but to avoid exhorbitant taxes used to pay for a myriad of social programs. French actor Gerard Depardieu even renounced his French citizenship when the government decided to levy a 70% tax on high income and went to Russia! More freedom in Russia? Well, it's getting there.. I would love to see big businesses, affluent inventors and businessmen all move to an inviting libertarian country! I'd be on my way too.. You guys could call me DX!

Gil.
Bankers Puppets?  Banking is one of the most regulated industries we have.  We're also getting a full load of Dodd-Frank with 250 new regulations coming down the pipe.  If this is how Washington treats their masters, I'd sure hate to see what they do to someone they feel they can walk over.

As for Russia, I spent a year there and it is a totally different culture from the US and is a whole different story.

gil

QuoteBankers Puppets?  Banking is one of the most regulated industries we have.

Well, just follow the money... Bailouts... I am outerly convinced that the government is controlled by commercial interests, mainly the banking, oil and armament industries. We are presented with candidates who answer to them on both sides. Democracy is an illusion. The bipartisan system is alike asking a child: "Do you want to go to bed at 9:00 or 9:15?" But really, the parents are calling the shots...

Gil.

KC9TNH

I show up (still) for every election, even dog-catcher if it were an elected office.
That said, and given the figures Geek put forth which are solid, there must be a change in the electorate's view if that is to be the desired method. And that will not happen until some tipping point, which has not yet been reached. The "little" tipping points are being managed very well from a propaganda perspective; and people who've lost their history do not have a sense of what "a long train of abuses" looks like.*

This is still the greatest successful experience in governance (to my knowledge) thus far. For those not in a position to see a "gulch" in their lifetime or move off-shore, but who recognize the need, then they need to keep pounding a message that resonates. It doesn't have to have a perfect SWR, but it needs to resonate sufficiently to get more folks off the couch before guillotines come back in style.

I like Gil's analogy of the "bi-partisan" system.
:)


* In my opinion Vermont should be called the First State because they did that on their own with land grants from a rather congenial NH & bucked the old King while the others were still busy getting their stuff in order. (Because of whiny-arsed NY they didn't become one of "our" states until 1791.) How would such an act work out these days?

White Tiger

#42
I do not for a second believe Europe will figure their way out of their collective problem...

You cannot cure cancer with smaller doses of the toxins that caused the cancer in the first place....

No country - anywhere - is getting better.

The political answers are statists vs controlled opposition. Those that need to stand up, aren't. What Ayn Rand described was withdrawing from the process and heading to another state...but that was back in the 50's when that idea might have worked...now the state she picked to retreat to...is a bastion of the left!

...kinda like expecting Cossacks to retreat to Siberia in order to live in peaceful disobedience to their state.

The way I figure it, chaos is a comin' and it's part of the plan. Nothing like a little chaos to help sheeple "get right"...

I figure the chaos lasts about a year. That's how I've built the basis of my prepps, and I'm building forward from there...

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KK0G

Quote from: gil on July 08, 2013, 09:27:12 PM
The bipartisan system is alike asking a child: "Do you want to go to bed at 9:00 or 9:15?" But really, the parents are calling the shots...

Gil.

Yep, and we were warned about this:

"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into
two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting
measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension,
is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution."
- John Adams

"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the
spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages
and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a
frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and
permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually
incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute
power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing
faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this
disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of
Public Liberty

Without looking forward to an extremity of this
kind, (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight,) the
common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to
make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and
restrain it.

It serves always to distract
the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It
agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms;
kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally
riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and
corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself
through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of
one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

There
is an opinion, that parties in free countries are useful checks upon
the administration of the Government, and serve to keep alive the
spirit of Liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in
Governments of a Monarchical cast, Patriotism may look with indulgence,
if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the
popular character, in Governments purely elective, it is a spirit not
to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will
always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And, there
being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be, by force of
public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched,
it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame,
lest, instead of warming, it should consume."
- George Washington
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Benjamin Franklin

KK0G

Geek

Quote from: gil on July 08, 2013, 09:27:12 PM
QuoteBankers Puppets?  Banking is one of the most regulated industries we have.

Well, just follow the money... Bailouts... I am outerly convinced that the government is controlled by commercial interests, mainly the banking, oil and armament industries. We are presented with candidates who answer to them on both sides. Democracy is an illusion. The bipartisan system is alike asking a child: "Do you want to go to bed at 9:00 or 9:15?" But really, the parents are calling the shots...

Gil.

Bailouts?  More like extortion.  The heads of the nine largest banks are called to Washington presented with a deal where the government does a bargain basement buy in to each, told they must sign on the spot or the government will shut them down and people have been calling that a bailout ever since.

The government made money on that deal.