Radio Preppers

One of my preparation goals has been to set up regular skeds with like minded hams, to form a network if you will. Most of the experienced hams here always tell people that you can't just get licensed, buy some equipment, pack it away and assume you're prepared to communicate if the SHTF. Your chances of successfully communicating via amateur radio under those circumstances without the necessary skills gained from experience are slim to none. Almost as important is establishing regular skeds with folks that are also prepared and will likely be there to communicate with if the SHTF, trying to establish meaningful skeds during the chaos of alien invasions and zombie attack would be a formidable task at best.

If you're reading this then you're already at what I feel is the best resource for accomplishing this goal - the RadioPreppers forum of course. Wes - KC9TNH and I are now having fairly regular daily contacts all the while continually refining our 'system' with different times, bands, frequencies, procedures etc, as we find what works best between us. Ray and Gil also have a regular sked and the four of us have been known to drop into each others skeds helping to form a mini network. My point is, do this now, if the SHTF we won't have the internet which obviously means no RadioPreppers forum to meet up with like minded hams, no way to start a thread looking for someone to have a sked with, no way to PM that person to work out the details, no way to e-mail that person to refine the system................. you get the point.

Very True Chris!  As the old saying goes: "If you are not doing it now, in all likelihood you will NOT be doing it then." .  Furthermore, in slow steady Morse code we were able to meet, move frequency once and change band once actually changed bands TWICE when you and I went to the next higher after Wes got a call from the White House asking about that giant saucer landing in DC....

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTWJxKIN5T8OnKl9bp4qK7aXkHb3nJNvATk4YlE8atG0Jb3YENY)

oh, I wasn't supposed to talk about that - was I?   

We could keep the rigs running for a very long time, scour the bands for information directly from hams in areas of interest and from international shortwave broadcasts.  I can copy PSK31, RTTY, WEFAX, FEC with my iPod using audio from the KX1 or my tiny SSB capable shortwave receiver.  The emergency power pack with solar recharging has 14 Amp hours of power, which means that -without recharging - it will run the KX1 for 400 hours of listening, not counting the internal batteries and my rechargeable external pack.  No infrastructure required.

After signing-off, I was listening to international shortwave broadcasts (Russia, PR China, Germany, BBC to somewhere..) on the KX1 while I packed my KX3 to ship to it's new owner. I'll miss the KX3 a little bit -

However, the GREAT news is that I am using the money to get a used one of these:

http://www.boatsnbikes.com/perception-corona-kevlar-for-sale.html (http://www.boatsnbikes.com/perception-corona-kevlar-for-sale.html)

With many, many expensive accessories too!


This old sailor needs to get back on the water, but am not allowed on a sailboat    ::) (too sexy)  :o ha ha oh, and the knee injury might have something to do with it too. 


Make skeds!  Even 15 minutes per night, miss if you occasionally need to, but make skeds!


de RadioRay ..._ ._

Waaaaay back in 1999, here I was making my Sked from a survival trip
in Idaho's River of No Return wilderness, to central Colorado (almost 1,000 miles)
using a homemade 40m QRP rig in my lap and a dipole (wire) antenna in a tree.

All you need is a Technician Class license to do Morse code skeds just like we are doing! The technician license authorizes you to communicate in Morse code on large portions of the 80, 40 (where we are) and 15 meter bands!   You do NOT need a General class license to be part of these skeds.  Learn code to a VERY basic level and hop in!

73 de RadioRay ..._ ._

Of course I couldn't agree more  ;D

Anyone can get a Technician license and learn Morse at 5wpm, easily. With these regular skeds, we could find each others rather easily within a few days. I have a hard time copying Chris and Wes, but Ray can relay. Sometimes propagation is good enough though. That makes four of us connected. We need more. Each one of us should have a low current-draw radio and a solar panel to charge batteries, as well as a backup which should be stored in a Faraday cage. I have my KX3, MTR, K1 and less useful, DC20B and a couple Rock-Mites. The last three are gadgets... They do work, but the lack of frequency agility is though.

As a side note, using SSB, we would never make it. CW is king in that arena.

Let's make sure we keep those skeds alive. If not daily, at least a few times a week. It is good low speed practice for beginners as well.

I'm still stuck at 15wpm on a good day.. Now practicing head-copy at 25wpm, but only 20% copy so far...

Gil.

While I agree with the suggestion, as a beginner I'd say it is easier said than done.  Here are some of the barriers to newbies like myself:  1) the communications I want are with friends and family who have not gotten into either prepping or HAM radio.  (That's a pretty big hurdle.)   2) So far I am operating primarily on 2m, which means anyone I'd be communicating with is in about a 50 mile radius.  3) I don't know morse, which seems to be preferred among this group.  4)  I now have an HF radio, but my HF antenna is sitting in a plastic bag while I debate how to string it in the attic and am waiting for an assortment of connectors to run the wire from the attic to the shack.

Having said all that, I do agree with the idea of setting up skeds now.  If you want to up the participation from this forum, I suggest either the continuation of informal links among like minded members, or making some of the nets voice nets, local nets, etc. so folks can pick and choose among the nets they are able to participate in.

BTW:  anyone from NJ care to set up something with me on 2m?

Quote from: Geek on July 18, 2013, 06:24:17 AM
While I agree with the suggestion, as a beginner I'd say it is easier said than done.  Here are some of the barriers to newbies like myself:  1) the communications I want are with friends and family who have not gotten into either prepping or HAM radio.  (That's a pretty big hurdle.)   2) So far I am operating primarily on 2m, which means anyone I'd be communicating with is in about a 50 mile radius.  3) I don't know morse, which seems to be preferred among this group.  4)  I now have an HF radio, but my HF antenna is sitting in a plastic bag while I debate how to string it in the attic and am waiting for an assortment of connectors to run the wire from the attic to the shack.

Having said all that, I do agree with the idea of setting up skeds now.  If you want to up the participation from this forum, I suggest either the continuation of informal links among like minded members, or making some of the nets voice nets, local nets, etc. so folks can pick and choose among the nets they are able to participate in.

BTW:  anyone from NJ care to set up something with me on 2m?

1-4 in order:

1 - I wouldn't worry about convincing friends/family to participate in ham activity or at minimum it should be very low priority. It may sound harsh but if they don't see the need and don't have the drive, passion and interest it's doubtful you'll convince them otherwise. You can't control other people, all you can control is you.

2 - You have HF capabilities and privileges................. use them.

3 - Learn Morse code

4 - Quit debating and start hanging wire, any wire up in the air somehow. It may not be the biggest, baddest, fire breathing antenna but any antenna beats no antenna.

As to making some of the skeds via phone, refer back to #3. There is no way we would be able to make our mini network work via phone, ain't gonna happen. There are many evenings when we have considerable difficulty copying each other using CW, I can guarantee you under those conditions phone will not work. To quote Nike, "Just do it!"

In Geek's case, we're all pretty pleased to hear that the area comms using 2 meters is going so well. If there is no need for long range (>50 mile'ish) comms, then HF 2 way would not be necessary. Remember that he had a good comms plan , asked for best estimate of the tools and license to accomplish his immediate goal and did it. Very cool!

For those with long range, low power requirement, HF needs, the CW is excellent.If in a backpack situation, these small "QRP" CW rigs are amazing, tiny and there is high performance with little power/recharge requirement. 

A logical  next step up in power needs and tech burden would be HF digital using a small laptop for e-mail over HF radio & etc. so that effective communication can occur with small, low power consumption equipment. For home use, if you can provide power during your "planned" emergency, then you can look into more power consumption with less skill burden using computer "sound card" digital modes.

Different needs and different tools.


De RadioRay ..._ ._

Sent via iPhone

Quote from: Geek on July 18, 2013, 06:24:17 AM
BTW:  anyone from NJ care to set up something with me on 2m?

Start a NJ group in the State Wide section here.  You may be surprised who uncloaks.

Quote from: KK0G on July 18, 2013, 09:02:38 AM

Quote from: Geek on July 18, 2013, 06:24:17 AM
While I agree with the suggestion, as a beginner I'd say it is easier said than done.  Here are some of the barriers to newbies like myself:  1) the communications I want are with friends and family who have not gotten into either prepping or HAM radio.  (That's a pretty big hurdle.)   2) So far I am operating primarily on 2m, which means anyone I'd be communicating with is in about a 50 mile radius.  3) I don't know morse, which seems to be preferred among this group.  4)  I now have an HF radio, but my HF antenna is sitting in a plastic bag while I debate how to string it in the attic and am waiting for an assortment of connectors to run the wire from the attic to the shack.

Having said all that, I do agree with the idea of setting up skeds now.  If you want to up the participation from this forum, I suggest either the continuation of informal links among like minded members, or making some of the nets voice nets, local nets, etc. so folks can pick and choose among the nets they are able to participate in.

BTW:  anyone from NJ care to set up something with me on 2m?

1-4 in order:

1 - I wouldn't worry about convincing friends/family to participate in ham activity or at minimum it should be very low priority. It may sound harsh but if they don't see the need and don't have the drive, passion and interest it's doubtful you'll convince them otherwise. You can't control other people, all you can control is you.

2 - You have HF capabilities and privileges................. use them.

3 - Learn Morse code

4 - Quit debating and start hanging wire, any wire up in the air somehow. It may not be the biggest, baddest, fire breathing antenna but any antenna beats no antenna.

As to making some of the skeds via phone, refer back to #3. There is no way we would be able to make our mini network work via phone, ain't gonna happen. There are many evenings when we have considerable difficulty copying each other using CW, I can guarantee you under those conditions phone will not work. To quote Nike, "Just do it!"

1)  I am expecting my son to get a Technician license, but not for a few months.  The issue is less convincing people to get into HAM and more about convincing people to prep.
2)  I will, but at my own pace.
3)  Maybe, but it is down the list.  Remember that in a real emergency, we can't help each other (other than passing messages) from 500 miles away.  2m covers the area where I can either give or get help.
4)  I bought the antenna on Sunday.  I intend to do a nice neat installation, not some rushed hack job that I then wind up redoing later.

QuoteI don't know morse, which seems to be preferred among this group.

Well, I want to make sure that everyone knows that there are more members here that do not use CW than those who do... The ones who do are just more vocal  :D For me, using Morse code quickly became an apparent necessity, simply because it works best with portable radios. No other mode allows the use of an HF radio the size of a pack of cigarettes that runs forever on a few AA batteries..

CW is also cheaper! Kits cost from $30 to $300, usually. Even some factory built radios fall into that price range, usually about $200, dual banders.. Add a key and an end-fed, and you're good to go. Let's face it, prepping does cost quite a bit of money, and radio isn't the number one priority. If Ham radio is your hobby, then so much the better. For many people, radio will be a prepping necessity, and they will want to spend as little as possible. So, by going CW, one can save money for other preps, or maybe more handhelds for local use.

Also, and I'll repeat myself here, having said so in a few other posts: I can't emphasize enough current-draw as the most important factor in choosing a radio. Without the grid, recharging batteries becomes a major hassle. A 7W solar charger is all I need to charge my AA cells. It's small and reasonably cheap.

Learning Morse code is just a matter of spending a little bit of time on it every day, 20 minutes..

Geek, you are doing really well. Remember, most of us are already set-up with 2m and went through the same things you did. I bought a Yaesu FT-270R handheld before any other radios. I only used it a handful of times, but it is there, and I would never part with it. HF-CW just seemed the natural next step for me, because of my portability requirements.

I have tried to get friends to get the Tech license, but they don't want to spend money. Many people do not like the technical side of the hobby. I damn well know nobody I know is going to learn Morse code! Prepping is most often a solitary endeavour. The best you can do is plant the seed in their mind and let them decide for themselves, in which case they probably would be more motivated.

Gil.

Yeah I suppose some of us are sort of like the CW fan club 8)
But of course that's because we've seen the light so to speak, I was an active ham for 12 years before I decided to learn Morse code and when I did it completely changed the way I look at amateur radio, a real turning point. I had convinced myself like many others that learning code was a hard, arduous, pain in the ass and all for what, to listen to a bunch of noisy beeping? No sir, I'll pass. Then I read a certain article written by a certain forum member who's name rhymes with RadioRay, and was inspired to learn code. Once I made my mind up to learn Morse code and started practicing it seemed pretty easy and went much quicker than I imagined it would, it was no where near as difficult as I had convinced myself it would be. My only regret is waiting so long to do it in the first place.

Suddenly things I couldn't have dreamed possible using phone or digital modes were extremely easy to do via CW such as backpacking into a remote campsite and being able to reliably communicate thousands of miles with a rig small enough to fit in a cargo pocket using six AA batteries with enough capacity to last weeks of operation. I challenge anyone to do the same with any other mode.

That concludes my monthly soapbox speech on the merits of CW, now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

73 de KK0G - CW Fan Club member

While I'm known here as being a "digital" guy, it remains true that I spend every evening, without fail on:

1.  NCW - the Nebraska CW traffic net.  On two occasions there, I failed to bring traffic; every other time, I brought a boatload.

2.  TEN - the Tenth Region CW traffic net.  TEN meets twice each evening.

3.  CAN - Central Area Traffic Net.  I'm only on CAN twice a week, since I am the assigned liaison from TEN to CAN and back to TEN those nights.

I started my ham radio career on CW cuz that's all we were allowed.

I learned and copied CW years before THAT for some place that sometimes shows up on the front page of the paper 43 years later.  Oh wait, there is No Such Agency.  Right.  In that case, I better (N)ot (Say) (A)nything.  Right again.

73

Luck
wa4sto.wordpress.com (http://wa4sto.wordpress.com)

Learned morse after 12 years?  Great, I only have 11 years and 9 months to go.   ;)

Quote from: Geek on July 18, 2013, 03:56:37 PM
Learned morse after 12 years?  Great, I only have 11 years and 9 months to go.   ;)

I suppose I deserved that  ;D

Or you could learn from my mistake and start learning now. If I would have started 12 years ago I might be up to 60 WPM copy by now instead of the 12-15 WPM I'm at. Not that 12-15 WPM is terribly slow, even at 5WPM you'd be amazed at how quickly you can converse especially; cut stuff not needed - as opposed to; when you cut out the extra words, characters, etc that aren't needed to convey your thoughts. I bet you understood what I was trying to say from the first line, the second one gives way more detail but most of it is actually unnecessary info that just takes extra time to send. Just food for thought. 

You did set yourself up.   ;D

In general, I am doing pretty well on overall prepping.  Comms are just part of the package.  On comms I am looking at 3 HAM radios as I sit here typing this.  Considering I got my Technician license in March and my General in May, I don't think I am doing badly on comms and that is the weakest part of my overall preps.

My current plan is in an actual emergency to be using 2m first.  HF would be interesting for getting news from further distances and possibly for digital modes, but really down the list of importance and morse would be somewhere below that.

During Sandy, I am told most of the local repeaters stayed up, so 2m was going strong.  Nobody I could have raised from further away could have helped in any meaningful way while it was going on, nor could I have have helped anyone more than about a mile away from my home due to downed trees.  (BTW: Have you noticed that in fiction roads are blocked by armed men, but in real life they are blocked by fallen trees?)

I've experienced multiple hurricanes, earthquakes, a tornado, blackouts, and 9/11.  In all of those cases communicating with someone more than 50 miles away might have been nice, but it wasn't essential.

Quote from: RadioRay on July 18, 2013, 01:40:38 AM....while I packed my KX3 to ship to it's new owner. I'll miss the KX3 a little bit - ....

[hijack]Thought you'd just slide that right on through without any notice, while everyone drooled all over the new boat.  W7ASA /mm.  OK, we need a full general discussion presentation on this new critter. [/hijack]

2 components: hear & be heard. I put them in that order for a reason.

Get as good an antenna up in the air as you can; I promise you antenna is over half the battle. Do it as well as you can, as far from extraneous noise sources as you can. Everyone has different limitations; work with them, don't let them define you.

CW is pretty much the most signal-efficient means to be heard. Morse can be picked out of the ether using less power when the good ol' boys are firing up their Alphas and Henry 3K's. It's simply an effficiency thing.

All that said, the concept of making skeds with people does NOT just relate to a particular mode (not in my book anyway).  If you are an amateur operator, but all you've got as allies/resources for "potential Event-X" are people who are on 2m, use it.  If they will not learn Morse, but are missed when they don't show up for a SSB net on 75m, use that.  Part of the point of a sked is that if someone does NOT show up, they are missed - and that triggers some other action to find out if they're OK, or if they got swept up by the WA4STO-bot. (had to  ;D )  If the only thing you want is to do SSB to the other coast, a good wire for 20m is easy. (Note: A QRP radio gets its biggest bang for the buck with CW, and that's a fact, Jack.)

By the way, most people don't even start Morse at 5wpm after they've taken even a little time learning the basics and practice-keying.  5wpm is like waiting for Fast & Furious documents to be delivered to Congress. Usually it's more like 8-10.  (I don't know anyone using CW here who wouldn't do a sked with someone at low-speed; it's like paying it forward.) Someone did it for me and I'm still slow 'cause there are people, some with kayaks, that can idle in a parking lot or run RE-ally quick at the drop of a hat.

But if at my home location I'll do what I need to do to make comms.  If someone is camping and seriously wants a sked with someone to take their reports or traffic from a remote location, I'm not necessarily going to play "oh I'm in the woods too, so I'll just run 5 watts."  The other guy/gal is the one "out there" so if needed I'll fire up that big pretty piece of glass & make it glow.
Gil FYI: I'm hoping the additional end-fed going up Saturday (fingers x'd) is going to shoot the best of a 20m lobe centered right between you & Ray.

Geek:  Good luck, do what you gotta do.  But if you have an antenna waiting to go up, and you have 2 trees, get it in the air if for no other reason than to start learning the radio itself. :)  After you think hard on what's important that drives the type of antenna, gimme a holler if you have any questions, Morse, antenna, whatever. I just can't help you pick out a kayak.

Quote from: Geek(BTW: Have you noticed that in fiction roads are blocked by armed men, but in real life they are blocked by fallen trees?)

Carry a chainsaw and a serious battle carbine & know how to use both. Never know when you might want to drop a few trees in the path behind you.  ;)

And for right now, the 0200Z sked with KK0G, with current guest appearance/opening act W7ASA, is on:

7.108 - Chris suggested to drop the half kc from the 30m freq so that's 10.108 if needed.
Why a different band for alternate?  Noise, weather, racket, propagation and, up in our neck of the woods, Canadians using the lower areas of 40m in accordance with THEIR band plan, which is to talk SSB - it's not like the RF stops at Frostbite Falls, MN Bullwinkle!

These are no-fault-divorce type skeds - if we're there we're there. Takes 10, 15 minutes tops to establish whether someone is gonna make it or not.  No-joy?  Move on with life.

There are two alternative roads out of my neighborhood.  Each time we've had a storm in the past few years, both have been blocked by fallen trees.  The chain saw goes in the car first.  I suppose I could shoot the trees, but I don't think it would make them get out of the way.  :-)

The antenna is going in the attic.

I'll listen to 7108 at 22:00 EST tonight...
20:45 EST on 14068.5 (listening now actually).
Got the MTR out tonight  :)

Gil.

Quote from: Geek on July 18, 2013, 07:45:43 PM
There are two alternative roads out of my neighborhood.  Each time we've had a storm in the past few years, both have been blocked by fallen trees.  The chain saw goes in the car first.  I suppose I could shoot the trees, but I don't think it would make them get out of the way.  :-)

The antenna is going in the attic.

No, shooting the trees won't make them get out of the way, but it might make you feel better because the damned trees are in the way! 8)

Quote from: gil on July 18, 2013, 08:25:05 PM
I'll listen to 7108 at 22:00 EST tonight...
20:45 EST on 14068.5 (listening now actually).
Got the MTR out tonight  :)

Gil.

I'll call you now Gil, if i don't hear you I'll listen at sked time.

Edit: QRM on 7.108, going to 7.109

Cool, please do. I'll keep my ears open!

Gil.

Chris, I could hear you very clearly. You didn't even have to repeat words! 2?9, sometimes 3?9 (no S-meter). My battery is down to 10V, so I wasn't putting out much power. I could have copied anything you sent me. Had I used my KX3 at 12W, you probably would have heard me better. But hey, I like a challenge  ;) Anyway, glad to hear you tonight, weak but perfect copy.
I'll listen on 7108 now...

Gil.

Quote from: gil on July 18, 2013, 08:53:39 PM
Chris, I could hear you very clearly. You didn't even have to repeat words! 2?9, sometimes 3?9 (no S-meter). My battery is down to 10V, so I wasn't putting out much power. I could have copied anything you sent me. Had I used my KX3 at 12W, you probably would have heard me better. But hey, I like a challenge  ;) Anyway, glad to hear you tonight, weak but perfect copy.
I'll listen on 7108 now...

Gil.

Unfortunately not so much on my end Gil. I copied you reasonably well on your first go round but then it went south quickly after that. Towards the end I could only make out a few random characters here and there. Look for you next hour on 40 meters.

Lots of QRM on my end on 7108. I do hear Morse though, in the background.
I did hear Ray's call sign...

Update: Ray, you were hard to copy.. Though I am glad you heard me  :)

Gil.

Well, I let Chris & Wes tap back and forth, then I briefly chatted with both.  I first chatted with Chris - easily readable, even with Spanish language SSB. Then asked Wes if he had heard Gil tonight, but NIL GIL was reported.  However, WHAT to my wandering ears should appear, but Gil's weak , very weak, barely readable signal, using one of his tiny transceivers and wire for antenna, We exchanged a few pleasantries and I've returned to the keyboard. this is not the band/time we usually meet on, so it's not unusual that his signal would be barely detectable. If we changed bands, we could improve that.

Chris: KX1 "QRP"
(http://eagle810.cocolog-nifty.com/photos/radio/kx1_002.jpg)

Gil:     MTR?   QRP
(http://files.qrz.com/h/ak4yh/MTR_s.jpg)

Me:    KX1   QRP/Hardened Edition
(http://files.qrz.com/a/w7asa/W7ASA_QRP.jpg)


Wes: East German battle ship radio with a 12 pound, panel mounted Berliner Grossewurst slicer to handle the keying current. (Big Sig)
(http://www.ominous-valve.com/images/crosley.jpg)

Not a bad 4 way round table on CW.


de RadioRay ..._ ._

For the benefit of those who weren't there; at the 0200Z sked Wes and I found each other on the first try and had solid copy with each other on 40 meters. We had a nice chat for about 15 minutes or so then signed off. Ray then called me and we had a 5 minute or so quick chat, he was considerably weaker than Wes but still solid copy. Ray and Wes then had a quick QSO. I never heard Gil.

All of this was done with small, highly portable QRP rigs; Ray and myself using our Elecraft KX1's and Wes using his Elecraft KX3. I will admit that when Wes had trouble copying me I went quasi 'QRO' and connected my external battery to increase my power from 1 watt to an antenna melting 3 watts! ;D

On 40m, I could hear you guys, but because of the SSB QRM, could not decode. I heard Wes, not sure about Chris. At the end I heard Ray and decided to call. My battery is down to 10V, so I wasn't putting out much. Without the SSB, we probably could have all chatted. I could hear Chris well earlier on 20m. It was nice to make contact nevertheless. I'm listening on 7030 now; will leave it on for a bit while I'm reading "Lucifer's Hammer." Highly recommended if you guys haven't read it. It's an old book which I heard prompted many people to start preparing...

Gil.

Quote from: gil on July 18, 2013, 11:03:13 PM
On 40m, I could hear you guys, but because of the SSB QRM, could not decode. I heard Wes, not sure about Chris. At the end I heard Ray and decided to call. My battery is down to 10V, so I wasn't putting out much. Without the SSB, we probably could have all chatted. I could hear Chris well earlier on 20m. It was nice to make contact nevertheless. I'm listening on 7030 now; will leave it on for a bit while I'm reading "Lucifer's Hammer." Highly recommended if you guys haven't read it. It's an old book which I heard prompted many people to start preparing...

Gil.

Thanks for the heads up on the new 'old' book to read.

And as usual we've completely hijacked another thread  8)

QuoteThanks for the heads up on the new 'old' book to read. And as usual we've completely hijacked another thread 

The comet just hit! I need to read more RIGHT NOW!  :o

Gil.

Quote from: KK0G on July 18, 2013, 10:49:09 PMI will admit that when Wes had trouble copying me I went quasi 'QRO' and connected my external battery to increase my power from 1 watt to an antenna melting 3 watts! ;D

a-HA!  I KNEW it. That was the huge jump you made when I was thinking about QSY to 30m.  (QRN was roaring up here but that's summer on 40m.) Think about it, it's all the same, physics doesn't lie. In CW that's almost an S-unit, and you were definitely making the meter jump then.

Ray, you dug out the wrong pic.  That's the club-station where I got my ticket.  :P
(They didn't have a wurst slicer though, too bad.) Yep, not a bad evening all things considered.

Gil, I think ISON is going the other way. Anyway, if I'm wrong you've got 8 minutes....
8)

Quote from: gil on July 18, 2013, 11:13:35 PM

QuoteThanks for the heads up on the new 'old' book to read. And as usual we've completely hijacked another thread 

The comet just hit! I need to read more RIGHT NOW!  :o

Gil.

One day in the far off future, Internet archeologists will be digging among the ruins of this site attempting to make sense of all our ADD induced rambling and come to the conclusion their ancestors were eating paint chips while cruising RadioPreppers😜 LOL

QuoteGil, I think ISON is going the other way. Anyway, if I'm wrong you've got 8 minutes....

Ah, yes, LOL. The comet in the book I'm reading did hit though!  :o

I'd be in trouble here, being 28ft above sea level... I might thing about relocation!

Gil.

Now you know WHY I'm buying the Kevlar kayak!  I intend to ride the BIG wave all the way back to either Wes or Chris' house, depending upon who's serving dinner and drinkies!!

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOIZiHf1lT8eWve1wdU56nIum5NwTsUtmTaZPCFm-jtjG8T6bs)


KawaBUNG-aaaaah!



de RadioRay/mm

I am on the air tonight again (EST):

- 14068.5 now.
- 7108 at 22:00.
- 7030 after 22:30.

Gil.

Update:
Wes and I have found our 'sweet spot' concerning band, frequency, time, propagation, antennas etc and are now having armchair copy QSO's at QRP levels on very regular basis most evenings of the week other than a few missed nights due to mainly me having other obligations at sked time. I have no doubt that if the SHTF tomorrow and all infrastructure went down, we could quite easily contact each other tomorrow evening at sked time and pass traffic. The next challenge will be to continue our little experiment throughout the next year while adjusting for the shift in propagation due to changing seasons.

I heard Wes last night, but could barely hear you Chris...

Gil.

I heard Wes & Chris, though I was using the old marine SSB (ship's radio, not USMC radio...) so that filter was WAAAAAAY wide.  Lots' of Spanich language SSB interference, but I could copy both of them.


Yup - Morse code is excellent for SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, WROL, SOL, FUBAR communications. 


de RadioRay ..._ ._

Sandbaggers! 8)


But seriously, anyone here is welcome to drop in. Don't worry if you're not a high speed code op....... we're not either; we're running at around 12 WPM but we'd be more than happy to slow WAY down if you need us to.

Listening as often now on 7108 at 22:00, I hear CW, but the SSB QRM is always too much of a problem...
7108 is definitely not a very good choice of a frequency, being inside the SSB portion of the band.
Back on 7030.

Gil.

Quote from: gil on August 08, 2013, 10:09:11 PM
Listening as often now on 7108 at 22:00, I hear CW, but the SSB QRM is always too much of a problem...
7108 is definitely not a very good choice of a frequency, being inside the SSB portion of the band.
Back on 7030.

Gil.

That's interesting to know. I'm guessing that you're getting good (bad in this case) propagation from where ever that portion of 40 meters is legal for phone because I've used that portion for hundreds of CW QSO's and while I experience SSB QRM there on occasion, it's seldom enough to cause a problem here.

QuoteI'm guessing that you're getting good (bad in this case) propagation from where ever that portion of 40 meters is legal for phone

Right... It's hard to tell with a 400Hz filter, but it does sound Spanish...

Gil.

Wes and I have had pretty decent luck on 7.108 MHz but recent SSB QRM is causing us problems and apparently a big problem for Gil so we're making further refinements to the sked. We're now going to try 7.037 MHz and work up from there according to QRM. Time is still 0200Z so listen for us and don't hesitate to join in.

Quote from: gil on August 08, 2013, 10:09:11 PM7108 is definitely not a very good choice of a frequency, being inside the SSB portion of some other countries' band plans.

Gil.

Fixed. :)  Canada's band plan for 40m basically has key up your mic almost anywhere; get it all the time up here.

The stuff last night was definitely from south of the border. I've encountered this before on SSB as well, and there are some amps running with no thought given to how to load the thing so that it doesn't splatter wider than a Mississippi River barge.

We'll explore 7037 & vicinity & see what happens.  I'll be there briefly tonight before sacking out to get up early & go chase smallies up north for the weekend  8).

QuoteWe'll explore 7037 & vicinity & see what happens.  I'll be there briefly tonight before sacking out to get up early & go chase smallies up north for the weekend

What time?

Gil.

Quote from: gil on August 09, 2013, 04:32:41 PM

QuoteWe'll explore 7037 & vicinity & see what happens.  I'll be there briefly tonight before sacking out to get up early & go chase smallies up north for the weekend

What time?

Gil.

Usual time, 0200Z. Sometimes one or both is busy, it's a no-sweat type sked. Still easier than a no-fault divorce.

When I am working you, there is a Spanish language net every night, just about 7110 LSB, putting their voice products all over us.  I have heard Cubans and others, though tonight, one guy was talking Ontario and had a signal stronger than the shortwave broadcasts here.

The only trouble with low on forty meters are the contesters...

>>>====>  My new off-center-fed-dipole is getting rave reviews, so I look forward to connecting with you fellows on the HF bands with my ionosphere destroying FOUR WATTS!



>de RadioRay ..._._

Quote from: RadioRay on August 10, 2013, 01:47:49 AM
When I am working you, there is a Spanish language net every night, just about 7110 LSB, putting their voice products all over us.  I have heard Cubans and others, though tonight, one guy was talking Ontario and had a signal stronger than the shortwave broadcasts here.

The only trouble with low on forty meters are the contesters...

>>>====>  My new off-center-fed-dipole is getting rave reviews, so I look forward to connecting with you fellows on the HF bands with my ionosphere destroying FOUR WATTS!



>de RadioRay ..._._

Contesters was one of the reasons I originally thought of going higher in the band up near the old novice portion, that and in my experience it tends to be a little less crowded. We're going to have to face the fact that 40 meters is a pretty popular band for CW and can be crowded at times, especially in the evening. I really need to get the 30 meter  module for my KX1, at this time of year propagation between most of us favors that band and it's less crowded.


Be careful with all that power Ray, 4 watts could do some serious damage! That's why I keep power down to a sensible level of only 3 watts 8) .

Quote from: KK0G on August 10, 2013, 11:38:51 AMBe careful with all that power Ray, 4 watts could do some serious damage! That's why I keep power down to a sensible level of only 3 watts 8) .

(Remote, post- 1st day's fishing; pre- allucaneat tacos.)
Do you think the QRO KX3's running 12w from a pwr supply are the reason the sun's poles are flipping? Or is it the +40 contesters on low 40m?

73 es TTFN
. .

UPDATE:

We've been on 7.037 for over a week and a half now and it's working out well. I think we only had to QSY twice and that was only up 1 kHz. I'm noticing a definite trend of stronger signals which I'm sure is due to better propagation from the earlier sunset as summer starts closing up on us (NNNOOOOOOOO!!! :( ).


Once again I'll extend the invitation for other members to join in........... we won't bite, I promise.  8)

If I wasn't having problems with my end-fed at home (I suspect water in the coax), you would hear me (hopefully)! I will be listening on my magnetic loop, but being inside and only on the second floor, it is less efficient...

Gil.

I'll keep an ear out for you Gil, propagation between us should be improving due to the previously mentioned end of .................... oh I can't bring myself to say it again ;D .

Will monitor 7034 Khz. I think Gil is right on about CW. Increases battery life, simple equipment and gets a signal through, no printer necessary just a paper and pencil. An added benefit is that I doubt NSA and or even the military use this mode much since the cold war enemy forces went to higher tech equipment dumping most of their CW gear and losing the skil;. For this reason I think CW give some OpSec, at least at the beginning of a shtf event. Some people never see the picture. It is up to a few of us to be a sort of radio corps. I would say most hams don't get it, just like most citizens won't get it until reality comes and smacks them up long side their heads. We must have a corps of radio ops to teach others how to do it if a real world event happens. The annual Field Day event is especially useful and we should all participate. My 2 cents worth.

I certainly agree Terry. I have never seen a field day, but have seen pictures and videos. Some of these guys have somewhat portable setups, but not really. I understand ultra-portability isn't the goal of field day, but here is my point about QRP CW rigs and prepping: For the first time I took a radio on a camping trip a few months ago. I was overloaded with food and water but made it to camp after a few miles of hiking in very hot Florida weather and no shade. The rig I took with me fit in a shirt pocket. I just had eight AA cells for power and a small solar panel. It turned out that those batteries lasted a whole week of daily use! One to two hours a day. The weight of the whole station was negligible. Had I opted to carry a bigger radio with a bigger battery, it would have been hell and taken twice as long to get there. Now imagine being in an emergency situation... There are a lot of things you might have to carry if moving is necessary and driving is not an option. Every extra pound becomes very painful. Carrying a 100Lbs backpack might be fine for an 18yo soldier in top condition, but let's face it, most guys here are not going to do that. I struggled with 80Lbs, and won't try that stunt again.. That's why I love those tiny CW rigs. 5W CW supposedly performs as well as 100W SSB. How can you beat that? I wish more preppers learned Morse code because it isn't just for radios. A flashlight or laser pointer can be used to communicate over miles with little chance of interception. It's also nice to have a skill that at some point might be needed, even traded.. I've had conversations in Morse that would not have been possible with any other mode, period. I'm slow, so what? the message goes through.. When all fails, the simplest systems are the most reliable. Reliability and performance is what you get with CW. The low cost is the cherry on top of the cake. And who knows, using Morse might help prevent premature senility..  :o even though long term use in some of our members might have created other "issues..."  ;D

Gil.

Hey Gil, Yep humping battle gear 1,2 and 3 plus a radio is asking a lot from a man of any age. I have done some humping. As of late it was only with about 60 pounds plus a small handheld and I can handle it pretty well even at 65 years of age. Had I had a rifle and say 300 rounds with me I would be pushing 90 lbs or so. Add a couple batteries and HF gear it would easily be over 100 lbs. I could do it when I was younger perhaps. Anyway, send me your callsign in an email and I will certainly listen for you. I often monitor the QRP freqs listening for you guys out there on mountain tops and camping somewhere. I hang out on 7.030 mostly and 14.060 Mhz. Since I saw this collection of posts, I have been monitoring the 7.043 frequency. This is a great website you have started. Thanks ever so much. It was/is needed desperately. Communications is key to survival and victory in most situations.  73 Terry

Correction:  I have been monitoring 7.034  not 7.043. I will keep an ear on 7.030 and 14.060 as well.

Quote from: Archangel320420 on September 02, 2013, 02:31:46 PM
Correction:  I have been monitoring 7.034  not 7.043. I will keep an ear on 7.030 and 14.060 as well.

FYI; if you're looking for Wes and me you'll find us on 7.037.

I'll be there at 22:00.

Gil.

Quote from: KK0G on September 02, 2013, 03:34:45 PM
FYI; if you're looking for Wes and me you'll find us on 7.037.

And be not dismayed at the digital that fires up regularly at :15 before the hour. He/she must have a sked but is nearly always gone by the top. It's a free-wheeling sked for Chris & I; we're there unless life gets in the way. Doesn't last too long; QSB often after about 20min but it's a slot that has largely worked out. And at our distance even low-power on 40m is like stealing.

Quote from: KC9TNH on September 03, 2013, 09:14:24 AM

Quote from: KK0G on September 02, 2013, 03:34:45 PM
FYI; if you're looking for Wes and me you'll find us on 7.037.

And be not dismayed at the digital that fires up regularly at :15 before the hour. He/she must have a sked but is nearly always gone by the top. It's a free-wheeling sked for Chris & I; we're there unless life gets in the way. Doesn't last too long; QSB often after about 20min but it's a slot that has largely worked out. And at our distance even low-power on 40m is like stealing.

I usually hear him and a few others at times in the passband of my KX1, even when cranked down as tight as it will go, but very seldom is it bad enough to cause a problem.

Anyone interested in a Friday morning SSB sked? I work from home most of the time on that day and could leave the radio on during the morning (~8-10am ET) for a quick check in.

- Rob

Quote from: Rob_ma on September 03, 2013, 04:38:36 PM
Anyone interested in a Friday morning SSB sked? I work from home most of the time on that day and could leave the radio on during the morning (~8-10am ET) for a quick check in.

- Rob

Not even sure where my microphone is 8) .

Hey Rob -

The timing for the SSB is not good for me. HOWEVER, there is a great Preppers SSB net on Sunday nights 9 pm Eastern near 7242 (usually UP for QRM).  It's run by The American Preppers Radio Network (TAPRN).  It's usually easy to find because their excellent net control station is Ruth and as you know, there are very few women on the bands.  They may eventually return to the 80 meters frequency once we're into winter, but search for them, usually starting about 20:30 in the 'pre-net' with the official kick-off at 9.  I am usually there.


de RadioRay ..._ ._
W7ASA

Thanks Ray, I might even try to listen in to that one.  I remembered I don't have to go to work on Mondays.
Kinda like Chris, I'll listen or use the 450D - I just remembered that there is a mic for the KX3 but it's in the wrap, in the box, and the box is, uh.....
8)

Terry, just call for "gil" some evening on 7030 or 7037 at ten EST...
Chris, Wes, I am on 7037 now...

Gil.

Quote from: gil on September 03, 2013, 09:43:36 PM
Terry, just call for "gil" some evening on 7030 or 7037 at ten EST...
Chris, Wes, I am on 7037 now...

Gil.

FYI, we were both occupied with family events (although I got back early).
Typically Chris calls me and he is EXTREMELY punctual. Unless there is something obvious that has to move us to 30m or something, if you don't hear us by :05-:08 after the hour (0200Z) it's because one or the other is occupied. If Chris is there, he's there like a German train schedule.
8)

Hello Wes, I'll just keep on listening when I can, no biggie..  :)

Gil.

Quote from: gil on September 04, 2013, 12:04:22 PM...no biggie..  :)

Gil.

Yep, that's the name of the game. Conversely, if stuff goes north at some point, skeds in a closer circle of folks are the things that - if adhered to and then not met - would lead one to inquire after the other end. Not there yet. For now we try to drop each other a note if we know we won't be around. But it's a good time and has worked to be a positive learning tool. (How well I know that Morse is a perishable skill.)

Funny how I find myself in some other commitment & thinking I'd rather be pounding brass to Chris. Speaking of my bass club meeting tonight...
::)

I just watch the atomic clock in my shack and when it strikes 0200Z I start calling. If Wes is there I get an immediate reply, if not I'll call a few more times but I've pretty well determined by that point that he's not there for whatever reason. If you don't hear Wes reply that's your cue to give me a call if anyone else is listening. Since I know Wes will be gone this evening I'll give a CQ RAD PREP call tonight if anyone wants to try.

Quote from: RadioRay on September 03, 2013, 06:03:59 PM
The timing for the SSB is not good for me. HOWEVER, there is a great Preppers SSB net on Sunday nights 9 pm Eastern near 7242 (usually UP for QRM).  It's run by The American Preppers Radio Network (TAPRN).  It's usually easy to find because their excellent net control station is Ruth and as you know, there are very few women on the bands.  They may eventually return to the 80 meters frequency once we're into winter, but search for them, usually starting about 20:30 in the 'pre-net' with the official kick-off at 9.  I am usually there.

Yeah, I know it is an odd time but I have an odd schedule. Just thought I'd throw it out there just in case. Sunday evenings are more family orientated so there isn't always opportunity to even listen in. Does anyone record the net and put it online?

- Rob

I was on 7037 at 2200 UTC. Nil heard from the group here. I did manage to work WB0ZWW in Leoti, Kansas who 589 here. CU guys later.

Well dang!  Did I mess up the time again? I thought it was to be 2200Z.  I just read KK0G's post about 0200 UTC. Haaaaaa  I will give a listen then. (I think I am becoming senile or worse, brain damaged from CW).

Quote from: Archangel320420 on September 04, 2013, 06:55:53 PM
Well dang!  Did I mess up the time again? I thought it was to be 2200Z.  I just read KK0G's post about 0200 UTC. Haaaaaa  I will give a listen then. (I think I am becoming senile or worse, brain damaged from CW).

I see you already discovered your mistake 8) .


CQ RAD PREP call in 2 hours and 7 minutes from now at 0200Z.

Terry and I managed to have a nice QSO this evening, I copied his fire breathing 60 watt!! signal (which just happens to be 30 times my output 8) ) at about 559. I lost a few characters here and there to QRM but never enough to prevent 100% copy. No doubt with his location in relation to Wes and me he'll have no trouble reaching either of us on a regular basis.

Nice QSO with Chris on 7037. Wow that QRM is something else haaaaaa Sounded like a night club full of a flock of geese circling a field! Here is the text of QSO if anyone is interested. I sort of paraphrased some of it.

KK0G calls CQ Prep // 0200 UTC

KK0G De NN0AA K
NN0AA De KK0G GE UR 559 QRM KN
KK0G De NN0AA  R GE UR also 559 QSB and QRM HW? KK0G De NN0AA KN
BK sri Dont know ur name BK
BK  TERRY  BK
BK hi Terry X Looks like just U es me tonight BK
BK wat is Gil call BK
BK XXXXX BK
R R
KK0G  What is your QTH? BK
BK  MN MN MN BK
FB copy Terry X Gud sig from MN Rig hr KX1 pwr 2 wts BK
BK  WOW 2watts? I am about 60 watts icom 706MK2G to windom BK
BK WOW thats like QRO compared to mine HI BK
De NN0AA R R  ur two watts is great BK
//KK0G  BK  RR icoms windom working FB here X ant her is dpl at 30 ft De KK0G KN
//NN0AA  BK R I see u spend time on range BK
//KK0G   Yes I enjoy teaching shooting, lots of fun BK
//NN0AA  I try to improve combat shooting all the time BK
BK   RR Tnx fer chat Terry X feel free to join Wes es I anytime  De KK0G KN
73  and friend me on facebook// NN0AA
dit dit

Darn, sorry I missed you guys... I can try again on Friday...
Terry, I'm often nights on 7030, try calling me some time...

Gil.

Well that sucked!


The North American CW QSO Party is going on and 40 meters is wall to wall contesters right now. Wes and I did manage to make contact but it didn't last long. He was trying to tell me about something cool he picked up today and each time he tried to tell me what it was QRM wiped him out.......... man now I REALLY want to know what it was, the suspense is killing me. ;D


I went to 30 meters but either we didn't find each other or propagation wasn't favorable because I never heard from him. Our continued smashing success of meeting on 40 meters most nights like clockwork is actually sort of a disadvantage because we don't get any practice or experience in switching to our alternate bands.

Yep, as soon as I turned on my radio, I knew. Shut it off five minutes later... I should have gone to 30, but the mood wasn't there anymore  :(
And of course it's going to be the whole f___ing week-end.  >:(

Gil.

Interestingly the thought to switch from my KX1 to the 100 watts of my TS-2000 to help fight the QRM never even occurred to me until just now. It's official............... I'm a dedicated QRP operator ;D

QuoteIt's official............... I'm a dedicated QRP operator

Alsmost...... You'd have to sell your Kenwood....  :o

Gil.

Quote from: gil on September 08, 2013, 01:00:22 AM

QuoteIt's official............... I'm a dedicated QRP operator

Alsmost...... You'd have to sell your Kenwood....  :o

Gil.

Actually I've seriously considered doing exactly that and replacing it with an Elecraft K2 with all the bells and whistles. Of course minus the 100 watt PA deck and the SSB modules 8)

QuoteActually I've seriously considered doing exactly that and replacing it with an Elecraft K2 with all the bells and whistles. Of course minus the 100 watt PA deck and the SSB modules

I had a lot of fun building my K2 and it worked flawlessly. Even built the SSB board for it, and of course, ATU. I don't think there is a better kit on the market!

Gil.

Quote from: KK0G on September 08, 2013, 01:20:24 AM
Actually I've seriously considered doing exactly that and replacing it with an Elecraft K2 with all the bells and whistles. Of course minus the 100 watt PA deck and the SSB modules 8)

Not recommended. Your KX1 does a fine job & lacks nothing (except maybe a 30/80 module, nudge).
You may want that Kenwood someday to hold audio on a 75m local NVIS shot to a close-by circle of allies after DC is nuked (zombie infestation I heard).

100w would've done nothing for either of us last night.  That was fugly; excuse me, that was +40-over-S9 fugly. Spilt milk, plus ca change...

Quote from: KC9TNH on September 08, 2013, 04:19:39 PM

Quote from: KK0G on September 08, 2013, 01:20:24 AM
Actually I've seriously considered doing exactly that and replacing it with an Elecraft K2 with all the bells and whistles. Of course minus the 100 watt PA deck and the SSB modules 8)

Not recommended. Your KX1 does a fine job & lacks nothing (except maybe a 30/80 module, nudge).
You may want that Kenwood someday to hold audio on a 75m local NVIS shot to a close-by circle of allies after DC is nuked (zombie infestation I heard).

100w would've done nothing for either of us last night.  That was fugly; excuse me, that was +40-over-S9 fugly. Spilt milk, plus ca change...

There's still an old yet fully functional IC-735 in my shack that could be pressed into service for QRO phone work should the need ever arise. I think there's even a microphone for it somewhere. ;D

I know it's last minute but just in case someone sees this in time and wants to chat; just found out Wes won't be able to make the sked tonight so I'll call "CQ Radprep" again tonight at 0200Z on 7.037.

Quote from: KC9TNH on September 08, 2013, 04:19:39 PM

Quote from: KK0G on September 08, 2013, 01:20:24 AM
Actually I've seriously considered doing exactly that and replacing it with an Elecraft K2 with all the bells and whistles. Of course minus the 100 watt PA deck and the SSB modules 8)

Not recommended. Your KX1 does a fine job & lacks nothing (except maybe a 30/80 module, nudge).
You may want that Kenwood someday to hold audio on a 75m local NVIS shot to a close-by circle of allies after DC is nuked (zombie infestation I heard).

100w would've done nothing for either of us last night.  That was fugly; excuse me, that was +40-over-S9 fugly. Spilt milk, plus ca change...

Thanks for posting.   I am interested in the NVIS shot.  Could you provide a little more info.  I have done them years ago and I am just getting back into comms. 

What are you ideas about antenna and freqs during different times of day.  Thanks, Tim

QuoteNot recommended. Your KX1 does a fine job & lacks nothing (except maybe a 30/80 module, nudge).

What you would gain is a few more bands and a few more Watts. Not a big deal about the power, but more bands does make a difference, assuming you have the antenna(s) to use them. I think the bigger benefit here might just be the pleasure of building a K2  ;) I did sell mine to buy my KX3, and it was hard to do, because I enjoyed building it. Now I want to build a KX1 too! The K2 is a great radio, no doubt. Add the ATU and battery kit and you're good to go. Tough I would keep it inside.. I had the ATU and SSB board, worked great. Or you could build an amp kit for your KX1, like Ray did. I certainly do understand the wish to build a K2 though, it's a fun undertaking.

Gil.

Quote from: gil on September 23, 2013, 11:00:40 AM

QuoteNot recommended. Your KX1 does a fine job & lacks nothing (except maybe a 30/80 module, nudge).

What you would gain is a few more bands and a few more Watts. Not a big deal about the power, but more bands does make a difference, assuming you have the antenna(s) to use them. I think the bigger benefit here might just be the pleasure of building a K2  ;) I did sell mine to buy my KX3, and it was hard to do, because I enjoyed building it. Now I want to build a KX1 too! The K2 is a great radio, no doubt. Add the ATU and battery kit and you're good to go. Tough I would keep it inside.. I had the ATU and SSB board, worked great. Or you could build an amp kit for your KX1, like Ray did. I certainly do understand the wish to build a K2 though, it's a fun undertaking.

Gil.

When I bought my TS-2000 about 7 years ago I thought it was the cats meow and it was for how I operated back then - HF SSB, digital and VHF FM all with the power knob full clockwise. Now the few times I use it it's strictly in CW mode with the power knob full counter clockwise and the VHF/UHF receiver is never on...... that fit's a K2 to a tee. I also never used to care about current draw and my Kenwood SUCKS electrons like Oprah on a canned ham!

I contemplated building a K2 at the time I was looking at the TS-2000 but by the time I added all the modules to the K2 to even out their differences in features, the K2 would have cost more and still not had all the features of a TS-2000. Of course had I known then what I know now......

Some hams might think I'm downgrading but I see it as an upgrade to a superior rig. You could spend three times what a K2 costs and still not have as good of a receiver, Elecraft receivers are THAT good!

QuoteYou could spend three times what a K2 costs and still not have as good of a receiver, Elecraft receivers are THAT good!

I will second that, having built two (K1,K2), plus still owning the KX3!
(I don't consider the KX3 to be a real "kit")

Gil.

Re-reading this page I believe there is a question from Tim that got embedded in a multi-quote, so am extracting it here:

QuoteThanks for posting.   I am interested in the NVIS shot.  Could you provide a little more info.  I have done them years ago and I am just getting back into comms.

What are you ideas about antenna and freqs during different times of day.  Thanks, Tim

Near-Vertical Incidence Skywave; and here are some thoughts about that, and this is more experiential, with just a small amount of blue-collar theory tossed in.

The take-off angle of max signal you get from the typical wire antenna varies based largely on its height above ground level (AGL) because of its proximity to the ground & interaction, RELATIVE TO the band being used.  EXAMPLE:  A typical residential wire 30' AGL is nearly a 1/2-wave high on 20m and you can get some real good service & distance out of that.  The same antenna on 80/75m is less than 1/8th-wave AGL.  Where the 20m signal peak will be taking off at a lower take-off angle and get your distance, the same peak signal on 75m is going to be found launching within 10-15° of vertical.  Looking at the wire standing on the ground, as seen in many antenna plots, the 20m will look like the typical butterfly wings, the 75m plot will look like what I call "the rising bran muffin."  (HouseHold-6 already puts up with my quirks; she is, ergo, a gem.)

So unless the atmosphere is extremely absorbent, the first time that 20m sig bounces and heads back to earth will be a long way's away.  The 75m sig goes almost straight up, then comes down within a MUCH closer radius - PERFECT for regional comms that don't disturb other regional comms, usually out to 200, maybe 300 miles.

In terms of bands, times of day, I've found the following, with your best bets being 40m, and 80/75m (the physical distances involved are long way out at the end of the wire, which is why the voice portion of the lower band is often referred to as 75m):

40m is good in the morning, depending upon whether you have some sun already 10-15° above the horizon (ionization is necessary). This can last often until mid-morning, and often goes in the toilet in the afternoon domestically.  It can start to return as the sun begins to sink. It will often startle you to find at 4pm that someone you couldn't hear is S9 at 4:15.  Kinda quirky sometimes.

80/75m:  These bands are, in my view, best at night, under full sunset conditions. (Sun is 10-12° below the horizon, which happens pretty quick in the winter.)  Also, on these bands you are going to hear ALL of the weather going on around CONUS.  So check the radar & verify that you're hearing the static crashes from Louisiana, not next door. If not next door, drive on.  The band might have alot of racket, but might be in excellent propagation shape.  You can do alot on this band at night and typically QRP levels will get it done for CW, typical barefoot base power required for SSB.
The other quirk that often happens with 80/75 is that they may have a few hour period right in the middle of the day when they are in great shape and local/regional comms are easy-breezy.

If all you want to do is work local/regional on these lower bands, a decent wire antenna at any reasonable distance AGL will get it done for you.  That typical ham's 30' high dipole is great for the higher bands, and they're probably not going to often get it up high enough to be 1/2 wave on either band unless they have a tower or are on top of a peak with all ground sloping away.

One tip if you're working with short end-fed antennas typically run as slopers:  If you can, get the feed point of it at least 8' or so AGL.  Any reasonable plots will show the reason - you don't gain much local NVIS, but it will be a barn-stomper on the higher bands because it's not interacting with the ground as much.

Honest, if all you wanted to do was work very local 80/75 you could string a wire pretty low and still get away with it.  Just get it above obvious obstructions.
Did that help?

I would venture to guess that the average hams HF wire antennas are already NVIS whether that's the intent or not, especially from 40 meters and down. To get the low take off angles for the coveted DX contacts requires more height than the typical ham can muster without a tall tower, the tip of my push up mast is only 30 feet high. One of the advantages of vertical antennas is the fact that they can achieve very low take off angles even mounted as low as ground level.

Thanks for the reply.  It was great.  I needed my memory shaken up a bit and that did it. 

You guys are putting out good info.  I totally agree about the cw too.  I am getting back into comms, because I found some guys near me who prep and have gotten their licenses.  They have general and above, but none of them know code.  It is my mission to show them the light.  Gotta lead by example.

I am waiting on my Tech license and plan to get my general next month.  I will be getting my code back up to snuff in the meantime.  I plan to use NVIS to talk with my buddies, when I get my rig up.  Some of them are about 75 miles away and I am thinking that is my best bet.

What do you guys think about 6 meter simplex operations in rural environments?   I need to talk about 30 miles simplex and would like to have a base that can communicate with our handhelds at the same time.  I am not planning to use repeaters.  Murphy's Law. 

Let me know if this sounds crazy. 

Thanks again for the forum and the advice.

Tim

Quote from: Tim on September 23, 2013, 06:47:03 PM
What do you guys think about 6 meter simplex operations in rural environments?   I need to talk about 30 miles simplex and would like to have a base that can communicate with our handhelds at the same time.  I am not planning to use repeaters.  Murphy's Law. 

Let me know if this sounds crazy. 

Thanks again for the forum and the advice.

Tim

Antenna, antenna, antenna. In other words it's almost completely dependent on the antennas 8) .
For example, if both stations are on relatively flat ground and have 5 element directional Yagi antennas mounted in the clear on 50 foot towers, they could very easily have armchair copy at mere milliwatt power levels. If on the other hand both stations are using 1/4 wave verticals mounted at 20 feet on the roof with a ridge between them, 500 watts may not make a connection.

Hello Terry. I sent you a message... I have never been in the military, but I Think I would have liked it and done a decent job.. Oh well, too late now.. I sure don't miss carrying a heavy backpack every day. I think too many preppers overestimate their ability to carry a heavy load over long distances. I sure did...

Gil.

I vote for the Yagi as well! Easy to make and quite cheap. Don't discount 2m SSB either: smaller antenna and probably similar range to 6m. I am about to build a 2m one soon and will post about the build.. For 2m a quad would be even better!

Gil.

Yeah, the terrain controls it all.  Over water you can probably go 50 miles between 2M HTs.  I've had a lot of dissapointing experience with the VHF stuff.  Some of us tried 2M simplex and 2M SSB with poor success.  Here in the 100' hills of north east MA there were guys 15 miles apart that couldn't hear each other.  I have a J-pole 25' off the ground (in the attic :P ) and I can't here some guys 12 miles away behind a 75' hill while there are some repeaters 30 miles away I can hit.  Even the guy with the 7 element yagi (mounted vertically) on his tower couldn't find me 20 miles away.  I'm getting more and more interested in NVIS on 40M and 80M.

Quote from: gil on September 23, 2013, 07:38:23 PM
I vote for the Yagi as well! Easy to make and quite cheap. Don't discount 2m SSB either: smaller antenna and probably similar range to 6m. I am about to build a 2m one soon and will post about the build.. For 2m a quad would be even better!

Gil.

See the short article in QST about the Scouts building a 3 element 2M yagi from barbed wire.  I never though the Scouts and ham radio would merge produce something that looked so rancher/steampunk. :D

QuoteSome of us tried 2M simplex and 2M SSB with poor success.  Here in the 100' hills of north east MA there were guys 15 miles apart that couldn't hear each other.

That really surprises me.. Especially over only 15 miles.. Both antennas were polarized the same way?

Gil.

Quote from: Tim on September 23, 2013, 06:47:03 PMI plan to use NVIS to talk with my buddies, when I get my rig up.  Some of them are about 75 miles away and I am thinking that is my best bet.

I have a 135ish foot dipole up about 45 feet and 75m SSB is a daytime slam dunk with a good friend about 75 or 100 miles north of me.  He has a similar antenna and we have never failed to connect during the day regardless of time of year.  Power level is probably in the range of 50 to 100 watts depending on where I left the setting the last time I used it.  I routinely connect to an 80m Winlink 2000 Pactor 3 station about the same distance away until as late as midnight.  Pactor 3 is much more efficient than SSB so the hours are extended.  If you run CW you can extend the hours and lower the power even further.

Wally

Quote from: gil on September 23, 2013, 08:28:15 PM
That really surprises me.. Especially over only 15 miles.. Both antennas were polarized the same way?

Gil.

Yup, vertically.  We were stunned, amazed and depressed.

Quote from: Tim on September 23, 2013, 06:47:03 PMWhat do you guys think about 6 meter simplex operations in rural environments?

I don't think it sounds crazy at all.  6m gets discussed from time to time because it's a very un-used siren calling to people. But there are reasons for that. 6m is also part of the spectrum the military use for their SINCGARS and other VHF systems and there's a reason it's notoriously terrain sensitive. I've done a bit of terrain & spectrum analysis on that particular vixen back when I worked in the belly of the beast and she is most fickle. Tactically, it's primarily the reason 2 sites that want to talk to each other send some other poor schmuck with a case of MRE's to a high-point to act as a re-trans site. And, in the case up in my neck of the woods, we're not even talking serious hills as some would out west; mounds and hogbacks that, at most, get 400' above the surrounding terrain.

I say use two meters FM vox controlled @ earbuds and boom mics for on the ground tatical. Low HF bands for inner-state communications with your team members.

We damn near had a full fledged net going tonight on 40 meters! I called Wes as usual and we chatted for 15 minutes or so until the band dropped out on us, then I heard Ray call Wes, then I called Ray, then Terry called Ray and finally I called Terry. Signals were very weak at times and there was a fair amount of QRM but I copied everything other than the tail end of Wes's and my original QSO. Let's keep it up guys.

Yes - Full house from this end:

Gil   QRP on 30m with his magnetic loop INSIDE of his apartment.  Then 40m QRP on the wire outside.
Chris
Wes
Terry

All on CW. I heard Chris and Wes, then the band went long between them and they could not hear each other, though I could copy both.  So I let Wes know that Chris was sending his "QSB QSB 73 73 DE ..." .  Short shat with Chris, then Terry keyed-up! How cool is that?

The only screw-up was when I flipped to low power and then to dummy load to practice a bit with my bug and noticed after about 5 minutes that it was NOT in the dummy load position...  I hope that I didn't have enough bleed through the antenna switch to interfere with Terry & Chris...  That was BEFORE I had a rum -    :o

I am using the Marine SSB transceiver from my old sailboat boat days - in A.M. mode to key it's carrier to make CW and using the non-transmitting Elecraft K2 ( long story about an E-bay purchase from a contester...) as my receiver. Until money falls out of the sky on my wife and I, this looks like the best way for me to be on the air in QRO (50 SCREAMING Watts) .  Personally, I prefer having a separate transmitter and receiver for a home station.

Good Job Team!



>de RadioRay ..._ ._

Quote from: RadioRay on September 25, 2013, 11:43:03 PM


I am using the Marine SSB transceiver from my old sailboat boat days - in A.M. mode to key it's carrier to make CW and using the non-transmitting Elecraft K2 ( long story about an E-bay purchase from a contester...) as my receiver. Until money falls out of the sky on my wife and I, this looks like the best way for me to be on the air in QRO (50 SCREAMING Watts) .  Personally, I prefer having a separate transmitter and receiver for a home station.

Good Job Team!
>de RadioRay ..._ ._

Ray I am trying to figure out how to safely connect a keyer to my SEA 322 Marine SSB.  I didn't need to know too much about it to use it while living on my boat. The manual is very through about the technical aspects with schematics, theory of operation and block diagrams. I am wanting to tie in a keyer to the ptt circuit but at this time I don't really know enough. I have included a bit of info below. Does this sound doable for an iambic keyer?

Listed operating modes quoted from the manual in the "General Information" section are as follows;

A3A, A3J, 2182.0 KHz A3H in E0, 0.3F1 (SITOR)


I had to go look these up
A3A: Mode of single sideband with -16dB pilot carrier
A3H: AME or AM compatible (carrier with only upper sideband)
A3J: Telephony; single sideband with suppressed carrier

Under "Transmiter" section it lists
Power Output   A3A, A3J, 150 watts PEP

On the control head there are light indicators for selection of modes of operation are;
USB, LSB, TELEX or AME

It said AME light "Indicates AM equivalent carrier is reinserted"

Unfortunately Stevens Electronics Assc. was sold and I can't get any info at all.

All opinions appreciated.
Thanks

Sorry I missed you guys on 7037.. The loop by the way is on the second floor on my house, which fortunately is an old wooden house.. We are at about 28ft. above sea level here, so the loop is probably 38ft. ASL. Tomorrow (Thursday) I have my CWOps class at ten, so no-go for me. Friday night maybe. Or if you guys can be on a bit early, at 9:45 EST, just to see if I can copy you. Great thing is about the class, I head-copied Ray with no trouble 8) Practicing with a code buddy every day helps a lot! We are prohibited from writing anything down. I m starting to head-copy at 20-25wpm. One year to go from 0 to 15wpm, and a few weeks from 15 to 25.. Go figure..  :o I am still missing a lot, but it's getting better. What I did realize is that head-copy is not a code issue, it's a short-term memory issue. Four or five-letter words are easy.. Above that, you forget the first letters. For computer geeks: It's FIFO, "first in, first out." The practice is to increase your memory buffer size and TTL ("time-to-live"). Another weird phenomenon starting to appear is words popping into mind without the need to add letters together.. Still rare at this point, but it happened a few times. As if that conscious process has been switched to a background task. Again, computer lingo; lots of analogies with the brain. At some point it might become a second language, directly from CW to thought. I'm not holding my breath, but it would be nice.

If anyone wants to practice head-copy with me, download the free ooVoo video conferencing program. We can have a regular online practice session. ooVoo allows multiple users at once.. You should be at 12-15wpm to start I guess, maybe as low as ten..

If I can get to 20-25wpm with 90% accuracy, I'll be happy. It seems like that speed is easier than 15wpm for head-copy anyway. Otherwise the TTL problem comes into play. Above 25wpm it becomes a processing speed issue..

You guys who used to decode Morse for a living, how long did it take you to just listen and have thoughts and images pop to mind? Or maybe using a mill is different because it's often one-time-pads and random letters? Do you just see words or still add letters together, albeit very fast?

Gil.

Ray's going old school on us with his separate transmitter and receiver. I wonder if he has to switch from TX to RX using an old knife switch out to homebrewed ladder line and a dipole made with wooden insulators that have been boiled in paraffin? 8)

Haaaaaar! Matey -

Ye be closer to the trooth than ye might know.  Me ladder line is spaced using sword fish bone and bound with baleen twine from the mouth of a whale, the wires is not soldered, but they be hand spliced, using me old marlin-spike.  It's spaced wide enough that I can climb'them like ring on the rat lines up the mast to get up the 75 feet to the balun, just like when I was a weee lad at sea, a'scramblin' around the rigging, tending sail. 

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Tall_ship_rigging_in_amsterdam_close.jpg)


de Radi O'Ray ..._ ._

UPDATE:


Due to changing propagation with the end of summer, we're changing the sked. The new sked will be as follows:


Primary -     0200Z     3.533 MHz (up 1 kHz for QRM until clear frequency)
Secondary-  0205Z     7.037 MHz (up 1 kHz for QRM until clear frequency)


Didn't want anybody hanging around the old sked wondering where the hell we went. 8)

We've been forced to use 80 meters for the last few weeks and I have to admit it's not a band that's highly conducive to QRP, at least not this time of year. So far we've been able to copy each other most nights but it's a struggle due to high noise levels, should get better when storm activity dies down as winter gets here.

Quite so. Even with good prop conditions, the earth-bound weather can make quite a racket. One other thing 80m conditions are particularly influenced by up in the northern climes is the latitude the natural aurora is at. Over time I've noticed that when it drops down to 60° (down around the mid- Hudson Bay) signals on the low bands are 'squashed'. You can think you hear wonderfully quiet band conditions, but it's because nothing is being reflected. (One reason those ol' SSB rag-chewers whose VFO never moves off 75m run 1500w just to hold a conversation; sometimes it's needed.)

As Chris said, when the warm jello cools & hardens so it bounces things off it'll get better. It is certainly less populated save a few brief traffic nets from time to time.

Warning: Monthly CW QRP promotional post to follow 8)


While we may be struggling to copy each other in CW on 80 meters at QRP levels, we are making contact. If the only thing we changed was to switch to SSB as opposed to CW and exchanged keys for microphones, our success rate would probably drop to approximately 0%.


CW works! QRP works! If you don't know code, learn it! If I can do it anyone can.

Update:

Wes and I are still chugging along on 80 meters most evenings, sometimes the QSB takes its toll but signals are usually copyable. We were experiencing QRM on our previous frequency so we moved up 1 kc to 3.534 MHz in case anyone wants to join in (HINT 8) ). I realize propagation to the midwest on 80 meters probably isn't all that hot for some of the gang but you might give it a shot some evening. Time is still 0300Z.

Thanks for the update.  Someone MIGHT listen ... (Hint   ;)   )

de RadioRay ..._ ._

Quote from: RadioRay on December 09, 2013, 10:58:14 PM
Thanks for the update.  Someone MIGHT listen ... (Hint   ;)   )

de RadioRay ..._ ._

That might be a good idea because we might have been talking about you. ;D

Quote from: KK0G on December 09, 2013, 11:19:47 PM
That might be a good idea because we might have been talking about you. ;D

But not for long, lately.
Despite lofty predictions by lots of computers & heavily-degreed people, 80m has kinda been in the tank locally for the last few weeks. We work what we can, but the principle is still solid. And, truly, the QSB is almost like on a timer and predictable. I also suspect that things will clear up when all the Christmas lights in the neighborhood go off, which is typically after bowl games on Hangover Day. A short pre-formatted SITREP of some kind or other could easily be exchanged in that short window, though. Which has its good side...
8)

One of the great things to come out of our ongoing sked is finding out what works and what doesn't work over an extended time frame - I think we're getting close to six months into it now. 40 meters worked awesome for us in summer with near armchair copy most nights, then slowly tapered off as fall progressed. When we finally decided to switch to 80 meters as the primary band, it slowly went from sucky to slightly less sucky as winter fell on us. We're holding out for barely sucky LOL.

I am surprised that you're not booming in to each other on 80m at night, using horizontal wire antennas.  There might be another factor...

Are you using enough key for the job?

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ew31Kyy6IEA/0.jpg)

Leverage MIGHT make all the difference.  (and you won't find THAT in any college electronics course, neither!)


de RadioRay  ..._ ._

For those still interested; Wes and I are still at it most evenings and I'm happy to report that conditions on 80 meters have been steadily improving in the last month. The QSB that tended to start like clockwork has ended and noise levels have dropped off considerably, in the last few weeks I've been giving Wes several 599 reports, even a 599+10 last night!

I was listening last night, but the DX'ers were working 'up' and jamming a bit on this end.  I didn't want to add to the mayhem. It was a little in & out, but I did copy this much:


I am thinking that is was some sort of CODE or something - right?



73 de Ray
W7ASA ..._  ._

Quote from: RadioRay on January 28, 2014, 12:09:33 PM
I was listening last night, but the DX'ers were working 'up' and jamming a bit on this end.  I didn't want to add to the mayhem. It was a little in & out, but I did copy this much:

.. (?)TNH BT RR I AM ...... MY BIKINI.... WARM WEATHER RETURNS... WAXING REALLY HURT.  QSL?

I am thinking that is was some sort of CODE or something - right?



73 de Ray
W7ASA ..._  ._

It really did hurt!  8)

Hey!  You TWO!  You two know who you are!!!  :)
I tried to break in continously tonight on 3534 khz, but you guys did not let me.

You guys use KN at the end of each transmission which means "Go ahead specific (only you) station"  Tough to break in when that is sent :)

May you both get fleas. So ha!

Quote from: Archangel320420 on January 29, 2014, 10:54:06 PM
Hey!  You TWO!  You two know who you are!!!  :)
I tried to break in continously tonight on 3534 khz, but you guys did not let me.

You guys use KN at the end of each transmission which means "Go ahead specific (only you) station"  Tough to break in when that is sent :)

May you both get fleas. So ha!

Sorry, didn't hear you - likely because we're usually so fast to turn it over 8) . I'll try to remember to leave a little room in there.

Unfortunately your curse against me probably won't work as I believe I already have fleas.......... or maybe it's just irritation from the bikini wax. ;D

Thanks for checking in tonight Terry, great signal.

Quote from: KK0G on February 03, 2014, 11:11:50 PM
Thanks for checking in tonight Terry, great signal.

+1 I recall; good sig from Terry. I try to use [KN] only in a couple of circumstances. First, when initially establishing & giving 1st sig rpt, and then when signing & listening out for his final. Usually it's just [BK] - which I've only used in civ conversations, or more properly [K]. We'll try to do better. Sked has been sporadic what with other commitments on both parts, real life intruding.

As to the fleas, Terry you should know best they're in hibernation and can't be bothered right now.  ;)

C'monnnnnnn spring!

Just some updates on the chat that KK0G and I have kept going and a general "howdy."

As the cosmos realigns we may be looking to migrate back to 40m. 80m has proven through the winter to be a very good band for us generally in the winter. Performance-wise, the fade at about :20m into the sked time has been very predictable and, as mentioned, we get chat time as well as a window in which we could quickly pass pre-formatted traffic if needed. It will certainly be our alternate; during the QRP contests that go on 80m is much less populated, but works well for our distance.  KK0G's new rig with its massive power makes for easy copy usually at both ends. He did a solid build on that.

Both of us have other lives going on & I've delved back into guitar in a big way, resurrecting a long love of instrumental surf music while Chris takes the bad weather & makes lemons out of lemonade (translation: overtime buys lots of AVGAS for when winter has boogied elsewhere and it's time to slip the surly bonds).

The primary premise of the sked has worked though; not there/no fault, but absence does prompt inquiry from the other end. As Chris mentioned, it's too late to do it after SHTF - so be the ant not the grasshopper.

72 all!
  8)
de kc9tnh . .

Yep, can't wait until we can get back to 40 meters. Although 80 meters has been very good to us through the winter, nothing quite beats the armchair copy of 40 meters that seemed to last for hours on end. 40 meters also makes portable operation far more feasible.


Having a regular nightly sked has also had a few interesting side effects; through out my ham career I've always been active in spurts of a few months then inactive for a month or two, kind of a normal cycle for me depending on what other interests in life catch my curiosity..............SQUIRREL!!!  8) . The sked has kept me active on a daily basis.


The other effect has been gaining a friendship. No we haven't been best friends since we were kids, and we don't tell war stories of our days in college together, hell we've never even met each other face to face, but there is a genuine friendship there. The inquiry that Wes mentioned following a prolonged absence of either of us is out of genuine concern for the other. My main concern is keeping Wes' sending fingers from getting to callused up from guitar picking ;D .

Quote from: KK0G on March 11, 2014, 09:04:51 AMMy main concern is keeping Wes' sending fingers from getting to callused up from guitar picking ;D .

Equal-opportunity. Left-hand callouses = good. Right-hand, picking with arthritis & paddle operation. Division of labor. 2 can yield embarassing moments, one of those on the air making for -.--   . . . . . . . .  etc.
Been fun tho'.
Gotta run, pair of EL84's are warming up.
8)

Maybe we need a separate forum for skeds.

I can see it now:

    Radio Preppers » General Category » Skeds

SNPH¹ seeking like minded individuals to enter into casual but regular contacts.  Long term relationships a plus but not required.  Tranny² preferred as SWLs³ need not apply.  Interested parties should post picture of their rig.

1- Southern NVIS Phone Ham
2- Tranceiver
3- Short Wave Listeners


;D ;D :o

QuoteMaybe we need a separate forum for skeds.

Well we have one for Nets, but I will add "Nets and skeds.."

Gil.