Quote from: gil on September 16, 2012, 09:45:20 PM
It is assigned, but you can pick another one later if it is available and you licensing level allows it. See

Quotehttp://vanityhq.com

Gil.

If you have an iPhone - or an iPad - you can download an app called: "Call Sign" - it allows you to type in any call sign, anywhere, and it gives you all the same informaton.

Thanks for the informative post RaRay (apologies, I could not resist)!

In your opinion - how high would the NVIS antenna need to be in a swampy, loamy-soiled, environment...like say the Tampa Bay area?

I'm flirting with the idea of trying for my first QSO utilizing NVIS...

Nice rig!

for about the same money you could get yerself a Ten Tec....don't you hear those (HF) voices calling?

Hmmm...you said infrared - isn't that the same thing motion detectors use...?

...like the one I encounter as I'm dashing out of my neighbors garage at 11:30 at night because he left his garage door up...and just as I trip over his cat...I hear his garage door going BACK UP (because I inadvertantly crossed the infrared safety beam running across the floor - put there to insure that "tikes on trikes" don't get caught under the door, as it's coming down)?

...and his motion sensor that triggered his flood lights on the side of his house...as I tumbled over his cat, out into the yard, and on top of his garbage cans?

(..he's still laughing at the spectacle he met when he came out to see what caused all the comotion)...I may not not know much about how they work, or how to employ them - but I can attest to the fact that if you use them - those infrared thingies REALLY do what they're designed to do!

Wow. this whole topic sounds like one WA4STO and I played out a couple of months ago!?

If I had to bet, I would apply "White Tiger's rule of 10k"...that is; "if you're thinking it - there are probably 10,000 people kind-sorta similar to you, thinking the exact same thing..." (...and since there's actually no way to prove my theory - there's also no way to DISprove it - so it must be right)!

Anyway, here's what we came to - I have almost an identical situation listed by rg in the OP. About 4 to 5 families (let's call them "the in-laws) within 20 to 40 miles of each other - but I have an addional problem - the other side (lets call them the Outlaws) of the family consisting of 6 very important people comprising 3 familes, nearly 500 miles away!?

Gil mentioned NVIS - which in my opinion is THE ANSWER. As I understand NVIS (thanks to more than a few conversations with Luck WA4STO) it requires a HF rig and a dipole antenna - that's pretty much it! ...now the dipole has to be erected in a specific manner to make it work (that is: hang the dipole about 7' to 8' off the ground) which severely limits what most HF hams LOVE about HF (i.e., distant signals/contacts), but it isn't something that permanently hinders you, just something that you can convert to if you ONLY ever want to have one antenna system.

Here's a QSL.net blog post/article on NVIS I found very helpful: NVIS: Near Vertical Incidence Skywave

Now, remember, I'm new at this and as of this moment - UNlicensed - but from what I have read, the military really developed the use of NVIS while operating/coordinating in mountainous locations - when line-of-site gets blocked by...well...mountains. By bouncing the radio signal from the ground - nearly straight up - the beam is then reflected/refracted back down towards the antenna - but in circlar radiation pattern - and because of the steep reflected angles - the covered area is now a giant circle between 0 to 300 miles around the antenna- filling in the gaps that line-o-sight can't get around (see, you're not hindered by line of sight - if you're coming down from above)!

As I see it -here are the pro's & con's we came to in our discussions - and further reading (and the linked article) seem to confirm:

Positives:

1) Simple, lowest cost HF antenna system can be employed - AND it does not require a tuner.
2) Relative ease in setting up the antenna - as it only has to be as high as 7' or 8' off the ground (throw that dipole over a tree branch)!
3) Short pathways mean less path loss (D layer signal absorption)
4) Clearer signals as short path = less interference

The drawbacks:

1) It apparently can only be "worked" from 2 mHz to 10 mHz - requiring HF - and if you're using SSB-voice that = a little more expensive rig(s).
2) If you do NOT have BOTH transmitting and receiving antenna's of the group set up for NVIS - it won't work.
3) If you do have the antenna's set up the same - you won't be DXing. Because you lose the flexibility of those shortwaves by limiting their effective range to only 30 to 600 miles (although, it is easily RE-configurable as it only requires a change to you simple dipole configuration.
4) You will have to experiment which frequencies work best for your group...but it sounds like for what I want to use it for - it is the most cost effective...but that may be because at least one person in each family (and their are 4 families) in my "comm group" has committed to becoming licensed...
5) Round the clock reliability will be effected by time of day (daylight vs night time propagation), meaning a couple of different frequencies will have to be used depeneding on when you will be using it to communicate.

I've never done NVIS - so I don't know any more than what I have read and discussed with a REAL radio operator - but the fact remains it is used today for the very purposes outlined by the OP - that not a lot of people use this system - has a certain OPSEC allure to it! .

Now that is if you're budget limits you to using ONE system for ALL types of communication...but if your budget allowed for more - why not have each member of your communication group use Hanheld 2 to 6 meter devices/CB's in vehicles - and HF/NVIS in your ham shack? Seems like you'd have all the bases covered for as little cost as possible!?

OK more experienced hams - please tell me where I'm wrong or have oversimplified! Because - 1) I don't want my ignorance misleading anyone 2) I plan to have an emergency "go to" antenna to use NVIS during/after stuff hitting the fan - and I have almost convinced two of the 3 other families in my comm group to buy HF rigs utilizing dipole antennas!!

I am new to this site and to amateur radio. I see that Gil listed Ten Tec, that is the brand I bought.

Paul mentions that it's expensive - and while I am new, I think that it depends on what you want to do, and if you're patient in figuring out what TYPE of communication interests you, then doing some research as to the best types of radio for that specific purpose, then finding out what else you need to make the kind of contact you want to make, and then start trying to collect the equipment.

for example - if you really find Morse Code fascinating - I think Gil can speak to the fact of how little money it takes to start making contact (QSO's)!

If you're like me - and you want to talk to folks within 30 miles of your place, or as far away as say...Florida to Alabama - then you can go High Frequency (HF) - but that can get a little more pricey (but it happens so slowly, sometimes you don't know what you've spent until you're about to assemble all your stuff and start making mental notes about the pile-o-stuff you have in your amateur radio box) - but you don't have to start there. Like Gil said, if you want to make human voice contact in the 3-50 mile range (and potentially much further if certain "science" happens in the upper atmosphere), maybe CB or a handheld UHF/VHF is what you would like to do?

Some Ham's/amateurs (like Gil, I think) like to see how far away they can go - with as little power, and for as little cost, as possible!

So far, my limited exposure to amateur radio has shown me that whatever your interest level/financial capability - there's something just for you!

...but don't overlook one key fact - if you can find an experienced ham that you can bounce questions off of - it really helps!

That is awesome! Did you use him as a security bot, or was the purpose just to see if you could?

You're the second person to tell me about FLDIGI...I'm absolutely going to once I get me laptop upgraded next week - have to make a trip to the muthership for that though!

Thanks!

I have been wearing out a friend of mine - who has been kind enough to "Elmer" me (for those that don't know - that's what ObiWan was for Luke...) as I have bumped along this road to my current spot. Maybe a description of my very recent journey into amateur radio will help?

Only 2 months ago I didn't have a radio, didn't have a clear understanding of what it was, and beyond wanting to use it to talk to the world - and maybe a little closer to home...only a vague idea of what High Frequency (HF), "short wave" communications, were all about. I bought "Ham Radio for Dummies", which cleared up the fundamentals. I had distant memories of family friends speaking to missionaries in far off lands on an old "short wave" Heathkit radio , and played around with my uncle's CB base station as a teenager...that was during the CB radio craze of the late 70's early 80's...it was short lived, and I never even got around to buying my own radio.

So, basically, I knew nothing...but after the economic meltdown really hit home for our family - I started investigating prepping - ..so without belaboring that point more - let's just say my wife, son, and I all scrimped, saved, studied, planned, & adapted - eventually met the tartget goal. We did a LOT in a short period (from beginning to end of 2011) we layed in: food & water storage, firearms, training, and stockpiling ammunition, to focusing on paying off debt...

That's been about a year ago - and while I realize a preppers life in todays depressing and difficult times means something a little different for all of us - the bottom line is, that there is never a point that we feel we got "there"...I mean I NEVER feel 100% sure that I've finally got everything. Seems I only need to talk to one or two like-minded folks for me realize something else I've forgotten - for the family or for a *neighbor's* (prepper parlance for: someone who sees trouble ahead, and agrees to do something about it now, and strategizes with me on ways to help each other out), need...but at least we can sleep without the nightmares...and we can breathe a little easier...

It's for those of you in this state that the rest of this post is for.

It's been a little more than a year ago that I finally stocked the last of those food storage cases away...and I got that familiar edgy feeling of needing...something...while listening to a new podcast from Jack Spirko of Survival Podcast (new normal - I listen to survival folks everyday) - I think I finally realized what it was I needed now. Jack constantly talks about the neccesity of developing a sense of community...that no one of us can be as smart and talented as a group of likeminded folks with differing interests...and that we need to stay in contact with that community...I heard him interview a ham radio guy by the name of Tim Glance (from Texas, of course) about how Tim and many of his friends had integrated amateur radio into their prepping - for the express purpose of keeping in touch with their community - that it all came perfectly clear.

...so the next part of the journey just began for me...like I said, about 2-3 moths ago. I had no idea of what to do, or what I would need, beyond a means to stay in touch with my family - one group of 6 and another group of 14 - strewn nearly 500 miles apart from each other. Fortunately for me, it was at this time that I met another current board member of this fine forum - Luck WA4STO - on another board. Luck is VERY knowledgable about amateur radio, heck - he used to workf for ARRL and he even wrote some of the FCC rules we're studying/abiding by! Ol' WA4STO helped narrow my perspective and search a bit. Gave some great advice about identifying the type of operating I wanted to do (HF, voice), the type of radio I would need for the things I wanted to do - and again - it was on a budget (and trust me - it CAN be done n a budget). Now I have a radio that was built in America back in the 80's - and get this, the company that built it - built such a fine piece of equipemnt - they STILL build ALL their radios in America!

I'm now studying for my exam (something I never thought I would or could attain) and ol WA4STO has me interested in some digital modes of HF communication that can be used for security - and get this - amateur radio can communicate WITHOUT the power grid and DOES NOT NEED the internet to send pictures/email!!

Anyone where I was a couple months ago? Anyone have any questions about starting, best type of equipment, WHAT equipment and/or what the expenses are...I can sure help! Not because I'm an expert, but because I just went through it...and I may know someone who just might be able to help answer your questions!  I may be the least knowledgeable poster on this forum - and at times that is readily obvious - but maybe there's one or two who come in and lurk...trying to get an idea of how to start....and maybe this post will help you discover what it is you want to do, and how to get started toward your goal.

I just don't know how anyone can have a prepping plan that does not include communications - especially if you have family spread out across a county, or state, or even further...we have to have a way to contact them - and amateur radio might just be the thing you're looking for!

Maybe this would be a good place to get WA4STO to show us some pictures of the robot he built? I think you said that has a little camera that you had set up to send a picture of an intruder via SSTV?

I'm telling you - some of you guys are unbelievable - I am so pleased we have a forum where these things aren't just theorized...but actual pictures can be posted!!

Have I said lately how much I love this place?

Uh WA4STO - that is absolutely phantasmic!! It's exactly what we have been discussing - can we switch out the cell phone option, for the SSTV option easily?

And Frosty - found this interesting link in my DX Engineering catalogue - that ALSO came snail mail today!



It's here on the DX Engineering website:

Multiple Images DX Engineering Auto-Tuned Multi-Band HF Stealth Antenna Systems ATSA-1

If you click on the "Instructions" link (.pdf file), on page 14 (out of 20) you see that they suggest ways you can hide the antenna system in the bushes and illustrates how to string up a stealth multi-band antenna between a house and any nearby tree...


and specifically, Luck:
I think I have all the necessarry components to set up my Omni D, the fan dipole covering 80-10 meters, an antenna mast, and a multi-band antenna (ALL of which would have been UNDOABLE without WA4STO). I want to get this set up to at least start listening in...I take the licensing tests in a little more than a week...then I have a plan to get started on digital IMMEDIATELY afterwards - so Luck, if you want to know what I think...I only hope you can get the coding deciphered in time!  ;D

Quote from: KC9TNH on September 26, 2012, 09:31:32 PM

Quote from: White Tiger on September 26, 2012, 02:50:50 AMI'll bet there is a concern he's trying to remedy...that's my focus in trying to accomplish what Gil has done...my prepping side is freaked out that my aging parents are several hundred miles away. They and I need some way to stay in touch when the power goes out and the cell phone towers go down.

Had a chance to pickup several stations in the midst of the last Hurricane What'sHerName who were transmitting when it really mattered; utilities remaining down till winds died to a safety level for the crews. HF and battery power worked for them.

NVIS capability within a few hundred miles gave them local capability, and being able to pickup word from outside from the various nets on 20m that do that kinda thing and give others reports and some ground truth. All from the same piece of wire, just different bands.

DX contests & stuff are fun for some and have their purposes but the stranger 6K miles away may be of less value.

If your folks are a concern, get it on with them and get it done.  :)

NVIS is the exact plan! A friend of mine (active on the boards - WA4STO) is Elmering me and we have discussed this - he's also introduced me to some of those digital modes to be utilized for future security - like I said - independent of the power grid and independent of the internet.

That alone - is what has driven me, and others like me - to learn amateur radio in a hurry!

I'm getting my shack ready to make that first QSO - hopefully that will come sometime after my name appears on the database!!

Quote from: WA4STO on September 22, 2012, 10:16:39 AM
Yay!  Good ON ya, Gil.

I think we all remember our first, uh, QSO.  Mine was in 1970 and I had a folded dipole for 40 strung along the walls of my apartment.

Sure is nice when the guy on the other end has antennas that can at least partially make up for any deficiencies back Stateside.

And so the group of like-minded preppers grows.  Of late, I've been Elmering a fellow down in Tampa (I'm in Nebraska).  So far, he's proven to be exceptionally goal-oriented, has managed to obtain a gorgeous Ten Tec Omni-D, and a multi-band "fan" dipole.

Oh, and he's arranged -- entirely on his own -- to hook up with a local V.E. group, where he'll be taking all THREE of the exams next month.  Doesn't get much better than that, from my perspective; nice to see a guy thrive like that.

73
http://www.qrz.com/db/WA4STO

I'll bet there is a concern he's trying to remedy...that's my focus in trying to accomplish what Gil has done...my prepping side is freaked out that my aging parents are several hundred miles away. They and I need some way to stay in touch when the power goes out and the cell phone towers go down.

...and when you live in an area that saw two hurricane "eye's" pass within 30 miles of each other - 30 days from each other - the loss of communication with a diabetic, heart patient, for two weeks - will make you a little motivated...(if not downright crazy)! The combination of a lack of cell coverage and the damage to several bridges made actuall, physical access a near impossibility for a couple of weeks!

Getting them to grow, can, and freeze a lot of vegetables - and trying to make sure they have water and some food storage is only PART of my plan (my personal and immediate prepperations are all up to date - never finished mind you, but as up to date as my budget can manage)!

If it ever happened again, I want to be able to contact them, or other family near them - amateur radio will allow me to do that. If I can do as Gil has done and gain all 3 licenses - maybe (if need be) if I could help direct aid to them in case of crisis..well, that would be priceless...

So, I can see where the guy would want to get that licensing stuff knocked out in a hurry - especially if he had an Elmer that knew a LOT about radio and the specifics of electronic remote viewing - that could operate cameras regardless of the power grid, and without using the internet...and if  this Elmer maybe even had helped WRITE some of the FCC rules...and could recommend antenna's, radios, etc.,

Well, that guy would be a fool to waste his time and the time of that Elmer...wouldn't anyone have paid any amount of money to make sure their loved ones were safe during/after a crisis...?

I just hope I PASS - so I can MAKE my first QSO - soon!!

I'm pretty sure I saw a lot of the still photography stuff on single stage hobby rockets a few years back (OK...probably more like 10 years ago).

It would surprise me if this technology wasn't already "off the shelf" - if you don't want to utilize existing stuff - why not reverse engineer it and build something similar?

Here's a HubPages blogpost about a model called the "Eagle Eye" w/camera system by Art-Tech. It's on a more stable RC helocopter platform.

R.C. Aerial Photography, Affordable For All

Here's a camera specifically designed for aerial photography (stills & short videos). The difference is, this one doesn't have a monitor for what it's filming "live"...just stores it in memory and you play it back later.

Smallest 18G FPV Micro Video Camera for RC Airplane, RC Helicopter, RC Car w/ FREE 2GB Memory Card

I think this is a fascinating topic - although I'm waaay behind the folks who say they don't know much about it!

Hopefully this helps somewhat - certainly seems entirely feasible - if you know what you're doing!

I'll be following this thread eagerly!

Quote from: gil on September 22, 2012, 11:07:31 PM
Personally, I don't want a shack.. I want to operate portable. Somehow I prefer the idea of going somewhere else to use a radio. A field trip of sort. I spend enough time inside as it is. Sitting at a chair for hours isn't very appealing to me. I'd rather go to the beach or the woods and find the best way to set-up a station there. I'm cheap, I don't want to spend thousands on a tower, antennas, amps and whatnot. I need the exercise anyway..

Gil.

OK, that is very interesting Gil - I prefer a shack because I travel a lot for work...do you?

Maybe there is an inverse relationship to where we spend the bulk our time?

I do intend to have a mobile option, but I intend on using voice primarily, and I want to use HF radio to make local and DX contacts to find out what is REALLY going on in places we are (or perhaps, are NOT) hearing about - and I want the ability to plot and plan.

Depending on the nature of the "STUFF" hitting the fan - I currently only have a "bug in" plan - but ultimately I think I'd like to be in a better location if the nature of the "STUFF" looks to be long-term (and I think it will eventually deveolve into long-term), I want to be in place that has fresh water, a little land, near a small(ish) community.

For now, I'm investing in a shack - but my radio can go mobile...