Terrorist Bombing in Boston (2:50pm) and Cell Phones

Started by RadioRay, April 15, 2013, 05:58:50 PM

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Geek

Quote from: Quietus on April 16, 2013, 09:14:40 PM
Shutting down cell phone service in a hurry is just not possible.  That action requires jumping through some significant legal hoops, otherwise (no matter who does it) it is known popularly as "interfering with communications" under federal law and is illegal, absent some significant prior judicial permission.  It's just against the law.
 
About a year and a half ago, when the arnichists were doing their thing out in Oakland during the Occupy Wall Street times, word on the street was that people knew the coppers were coming when their cell phones no longer worked.  That was one of those "interfering with communications" events.  Those OWS protests did not rise to a Martin Niemoller  moment for most.  I doubt that a quick tuck 'n trim on cell service anywhere here will raise many eyebrows, as long as it's done for a good cause.
 
America will get used to and may embrace, many more breaches of law as convenience dictates for the law enforcers.

When 9/11 occurred, cell phone service went out.  During the Northeast blackout a couple years later cell phone service went out.  During Hurricane Irene cell phone service went out. During Hurricane Sandy cell phone service went out.  At this point cell service is an indicator whether there is some sort of problem, rather than a useful tool for emergencies.

KC9TNH

#16
Quietus hit the nail on the head re cellphone interruption, good post. What CAN happen is this:

Emergency managers convinced their municipalities to pay big bucks up front to their primary cell provider (the one most in common use by THEM) and they will - for that money - get specific numbers that in their hands that will always get through. In Reader's Digest version they've reserved themselves some trunks or lines the device can seize when it goes off-hook, no matter the congestion. Again, this is a not small amount of money both the one-time charge and the recurring for the service. So when everyone else is getting a fast-busy (device can't seize a line) but the "authorities" seem to be working, they're pretty much working on some devices that have been programmed to still be able to get through.

And FTR, up here in my little piece of 'da Nortland' we have a pretty good system of linked UHF repeaters and EchoLink as well.  This is all thanks to some HAMS who put their love & sweat into their particular niche. I don't play EchoLink but you can enter the state below Milwaukee (I mean, escaping Chicago, what's wrong with that?) or below Madison at Janesville and talk along & in proximity to the Interstates pretty much all the way up to the MN border on 94, or to the Mississippi into Winona, MN on 90, and centrally way up through Green Bay into art$y-craft$y Door County. I know because I've done a bit of that recently, in the car, with my little Wouxun, on the DUCK!

Gotta love a little UHF h/t sometimes...
If I were on the road again, I'd just do some research and program the little sucker and throw a 19" mag-mount in my bag for the rent-a-car. Don't do that stuff now because I don't trust drunk pilots, I'm carrying more than a box-cutter, and won't suffer being groped by a DHS bag-checker.America looks better at ground-height, through a windshield, or maybe VFR at 1200'. Cellphones have an off-button too.
8)

ETA: Of course I could just fire up the HF on battery & send an email via WINLINK to let everyone know we've stacked mags & are holding down the Alamo.

Quietus

Quote from: Geek on April 17, 2013, 07:42:22 PM
Quote from: Quietus on April 16, 2013, 09:14:40 PM
Shutting down cell phone service in a hurry is just not possible.  That action requires jumping through some significant legal hoops, otherwise (no matter who does it) it is known popularly as "interfering with communications" under federal law and is illegal, absent some significant prior judicial permission.  It's just against the law.
 
About a year and a half ago, when the arnichists were doing their thing out in Oakland during the Occupy Wall Street times, word on the street was that people knew the coppers were coming when their cell phones no longer worked.  That was one of those "interfering with communications" events.  Those OWS protests did not rise to a Martin Niemoller  moment for most.  I doubt that a quick tuck 'n trim on cell service anywhere here will raise many eyebrows, as long as it's done for a good cause.
 
America will get used to and may embrace, many more breaches of law as convenience dictates for the law enforcers.

When 9/11 occurred, cell phone service went out.  During the Northeast blackout a couple years later cell phone service went out.  During Hurricane Irene cell phone service went out. During Hurricane Sandy cell phone service went out.  At this point cell service is an indicator whether there is some sort of problem, rather than a useful tool for emergencies.

I think you and I are talking about two different sets of circumstances.  In my possibly too sarcastic post, I was talking about deliberate cell phone jamming.  It's occurred during the OWS protests, did occur during a bridge scare back maybe 8-10 years ago on the part of the NYPD (which caused some ruckus and led to some ... rules... being promulgated), , and it routinely occurs during motorcade events.  It is entirely possible from what I've read about the Boston Marathon cell phone service disruption, that jamming occurred.
 
What I was trying to bring in, was the idea of the legalities of cell phone jamming.  There's hoops to jump through at the level of federal judges in order to do that.  Most people realize that the Oakland cell phone jamming events were done without the benefit of judicial process.  As to other events, who knows.  But I know that the bridge/tunnel event that caused the NYPD to jam cell phones, got sorted out in its aftermath in such a way that would supposedly bring about  some more adult supervision to LE operations to jam cell phone traffic.
 
Jamming cell phone signals by anybody, including a government entity, is a violation of FCC rules.  People wanting an exemption from the federal code, must apply for one in front of a judge.
 
What I think you are talking about, with references to 9-11, hurricane events, and electrical grid problems, is a whole different thing.  When something happens, everybody gets on their phones... and cellular service gets overwhelmed by traffic.  The weather events (grid-down) may be another factor in cell phone towers not working.
 
You are certainly correct with your statement "At this point cell phone service is an indicator whether there is some sort of a problem...."   Problem is, we cannot predict with much certainty, where the problem originates, whether overwhelmed systems, physical damage/lack of juice to towers, or deliberate and likely lawless jamming of signals.
 
I stand by my earlier statement that most people either won't care, or will embrace, all efforts in the comms arena that their masters tell them will make them safer.

RadioRay

Jamming is one thing. A government ordered shut down of cell phones is another.  This might be 100% based upon geography, or geographic shutdown EXCEPT for those who are part of the "Selective Availability" crowd (politicians and their concubines ...) .  Other ideas are calls allowed OUT of an area, but none in.  Or calls only within an area, but no in/out... I have a first person report that he was easily able to dial out, but could not be reached by those calling in.  That could be based on the entire nation trying to call Boston - hence overwhelming the system, or it could also have been dis-allowing calls from outside.

The basic point is, we'll never really know.  If we are TOLD one thing, do we believe it or not?  Interestingly, we had loss of cell service in our little area of Virginia for 30 minutes this morning, though it might have been totally unrelated to any national security advisement.  If I were not married, I would not own a cell phone.


Time to rad and sleeeeeeeeep -


>de RadioRay ..._ ._
"When we cannot do the good we would, we must be ready to do the good we can."  ~ Matthew Henry

RadioRay

#19
The selling of jammers is illegal in the United States. Please: no more SPAM promoting an activity which is illegal under the laws of the United States:

"...it is a violation of federal law to use a cell jammer or similar devices that intentionally block, jam, or interfere with authorized radio communications such as cell phones, police radar, GPS, and Wi-Fi. Despite some marketers? claims, consumers cannot legally use jammers within the United States, nor can retailers lawfully sell them."  -FCC

For more information, here is the FCC website stating the U.S. laws n jammers in plain language.

https://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/jamming-cell-phones-and-gps-equipment-against-law


de RadioRay ..._ ._
"When we cannot do the good we would, we must be ready to do the good we can."  ~ Matthew Henry

cockpitbob

#20
 :)

KC9TNH

Yep, we ran that 9 ways from Sunday with crackberries & other devices going off in an EOC or during briefings. Leave 'em in the car, turn 'em off, give someone a lock-box for it before admittance.  But since 1937 you can't jam; unless you have a really good toasted English Muffin and then spam isn't so bad.
8)

My suggestion for the school situation - since all the jelly-kneed/hankie-wringing types want to suspend little Johnny for his creative Pop-Tart chewing - that they exercise some freakin' ADULT LEADERSHIP and simply BAN them.  Into the locker with their sweaty gym socks.
[/rant]

Geek

I think the topic here has morphed from cell service failing during an emergency to deliberate shut down or jamming of service.  Coming back to the topic of cell phone reliability, I do think the cell phone companies have tried to improve over time, but I don't think they are anywhere near the level of reliability we need for disasters.  As recently as Hurricane Sandy, service was very spotty throughout the affected area, which has some of the densest communication infrastructure in the world.

WA4STO

Yesterday's paper had an interesting headline:  "Chasing the jammer".  Caught my interest.

Turns out that the local communications (radio) service supplier had been deluged with calls from customers that couldn't talk to each other suddenly.

Short story after a LONG chase was that a fellow with psych issues had purchased a wide-band jammer.  As I understand it, his intent was to keep the local thru federal gestapo from listening in to his room.  Wait, maybe he was just reading the front page about my old employer and Snowden.  Maybe not so 'psych' after all.

Anyway, they nabbed him and the customers are all happy again

73

LH

RadioRay

Perhaps he bought his jammer from the SPAMer booted from this forum ? Haha
"When we cannot do the good we would, we must be ready to do the good we can."  ~ Matthew Henry

KC9TNH

Quote from: RadioRay on June 28, 2013, 10:49:52 AM
Perhaps he bought his jammer from the SPAMer booted from this forum ? Haha
DFer's dream - Gotta love guys that toss out a big wide signal & stay on the air for-e-ver...
8)

Geek

With most everyone you see on the street staring at the screen of a smartphone, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you interfere you might be noticed.   :o