Bitcoin donations to: 1CE9UfWJcHBYkWPns7iqBqZgKhd5xfqEaM thanks!
Buy Bitcoins easily by clicking HERE!


Use coupon radiopreppers for 20% off on the above site.

Author Topic: Do YOU Have A Plan?  (Read 13152 times)

White Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 525
  • SMeter: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Do YOU Have A Plan?
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2012, 11:30:37 PM »
"Mr Underhill..." said the Elven King...in an odd yet vaguely familiar way...

Sorry, I could not resist mixing my metaphors...or is that allusions...(never can keep them straight anymore...)?

I had been contemplating those same entities for actual training - and I'm glad you shared the mixed receptions - as I was almost sure that All I would find was what you described at your CERTS group sponsored by the local fire dpt., many former local LEO's and EMT's have related a growing hostility amongst the new hires down at city hall.

I think I will check out emergency certification here - but I don't have any misconceptions that it will be anything but a learning experience - it should ALL be a pleasant experience....but give a few guys some power and watch 'em start making rules (at which point I usually move to the back of the room, near the door...)!

In the end, it doesn't matter if you decide on the red pill, or the blue pill...you still end up in the Grey Havens, eh?

It's HOW you get there that counts...
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 02:36:37 PM by White Tiger »
If you're looking for me, you're probably looking in the wrong place.

Sunflower

  • Guest
Re: Do YOU Have A Plan?
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2012, 08:57:24 PM »
Good story Underhill.

In our neighborhood, the Sheriff is still king. Meaning if you have a problem, they are happy to come out and assist. I really like our Sheriff Dept - they look out after the elderly and such. The mention of Leos and EMT made me think of that. Politicians come and go - so do Sheriff sometimes. Talk about heated politics during election time. Seems like the Sheriff Race is always the bigger and more interesting one.

If you are thinking about relocating, I would consider the kind of places that are covered by Sheriff Dept. There is just a certain kind of old fashion living that I associate with dealing with Sheriff/deputies etc - at least here in Kansas.

Gambrinus

  • Guest
Re: Do YOU Have A Plan?
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2012, 12:17:15 PM »
My plan is to stay put unless that becomes impossible.  Currently my car is not suited for traveling through severe weather so if a hurricane was coming my way, I would have to make the decision to bug out days before.  At least I would have several bug out locations if needed.  If I stay, I?m in pretty good shape and post storm would be the biggest concern. I don?t have a generator yet and I?m holding out for a propane one with a buried tank. I will probably have a better suited car for next hurricane season.  I don?t have a means for growing food but I have the ocean.  There are also a few lakes/ponds in my hood I?m thinking about stocking when no one is looking.  If the S that hit?s the F is not weather related (becoming more likely), I?m still better off behind my concrete walls.

One of my biggest problems is my wife works in another state and we go back and forth.  Sometimes I?m there and sometimes she is here. Most times we are not together so it?s very possible that if the S did hit, we would be hundreds of miles apart and if it was bad, we would be better off staying where we are rather than traveling so I?m pretty much on my own as well.

I?m a CERT sector leader and now a member of our county emergency operations through the local Amateur radio club.  I?m building up my radio equipment and our local city/county fire and EOC are VERY supportive.  We are exploring how we can improve our communications and looking into the possibility of adding repeaters in dead areas. I was very surprised just how supportive they actually are.  They even opened up their fire and police training facility and instructors for advanced training.  They promise more training and support to come.  They are also very protective of us by keeping other county agencies from trying to tap into the resource for things we are not trained or suited for such as manning shelters (no thanks).

I speak to my CERT team for the necessity for prepping but I don?t advertise outside of that and even there, I only go into detail about a bug out bag and a few days of food. I don?t ever show and tell, if friends don?t prep, they don?t need to know of someone elses.

White Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 525
  • SMeter: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Do YOU Have A Plan?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2012, 01:56:06 PM »
My plan is to stay put unless that becomes impossible.  Currently my car is not suited for traveling through severe weather so if a hurricane was coming my way, I would have to make the decision to bug out days before.  At least I would have several bug out locations if needed.  If I stay, I?m in pretty good shape and post storm would be the biggest concern. I don?t have a generator yet and I?m holding out for a propane one with a buried tank. I will probably have a better suited car for next hurricane season.  I don?t have a means for growing food but I have the ocean.  There are also a few lakes/ponds in my hood I?m thinking about stocking when no one is looking.  If the S that hit?s the F is not weather related (becoming more likely), I?m still better off behind my concrete walls.
Sounds like you're plan is similar to my plan - it also sounds like you're somewhere near me...and by extension...Gil...?
One of my biggest problems is my wife works in another state and we go back and forth.  Sometimes I?m there and sometimes she is here. Most times we are not together so it?s very possible that if the S did hit, we would be hundreds of miles apart and if it was bad, we would be better off staying where we are rather than traveling so I?m pretty much on my own as well.
This is a PERFECT option! I believe that certain SHTF events call for "Bugging In", while another set of variables and situations would dictate "Bugging Out" (the duration of the event, the problems associated with traffic exiting a state before an event, the organized  response to an event, and the relative estimation of security of your location and the civil support).

I say your situation is PERFECT because - depending on where your wife works - you could design around a bigger SHTF event (or an event that has a more complicated response (like an Earthquake, long term power-grid failure, or the shear number of events that government must respond to over a large area). Have you thought about buying a BOL and stocking it with similar supplies/equipment? That's what I mean by your situation being perfect! No matter what, you would have a fall back location. And what makes it all the more perfect is that most of us have to talk our wives, significant others into the idea of considering buying a survival retreat - you already have that taken care of!

Have you ever considered that if your wife holds at least a tech license - she could communicate with you? In the unfortunate event something did happen while you were apart - you would have a peace of mind that A) you would KNOW she's safe, and B) she would KNOW you were safe - if the worst did happen! C) you could coordinate last minute items before deciding to go where she is!
I?m a CERT sector leader and now a member of our county emergency operations through the local Amateur radio club.  I?m building up my radio equipment and our local city/county fire and EOC are VERY supportive.  We are exploring how we can improve our communications and looking into the possibility of adding repeaters in dead areas. I was very surprised just how supportive they actually are.  They even opened up their fire and police training facility and instructors for advanced training.  They promise more training and support to come.  They are also very protective of us by keeping other county agencies from trying to tap into the resource for things we are not trained or suited for such as manning shelters (no thanks).
I was becoming interested in the CERT program - but I heard a few stories that concerned me about areas where the authorities were NOT so supportive and did expect ALL volunteers to be chess pieces to be moved into any role THEY decide for THEIR resources...

Like you said - sorry - I'm just NOT the guy you want listening to complaints about the shelter blankets not being thick enough, not being long enough, or the lights being too bright...
I speak to my CERT team for the necessity for prepping but I don?t advertise outside of that and even there, I only go into detail about a bug out bag and a few days of food. I don?t ever show and tell, if friends don?t prep, they don?t need to know of someone elses.
Good plan. Ive had unexpected visitors to my home that discovered some of my stash...usually they turn to me with a quizzical look/raised eyebrow...I just tell them "if you've lived through a hurricane, you know what that's for..."

I'm concerned others aren't preparing - early on I warned as many as I could that they needed to do something. Now, though, if you can't read THESE tea-leaves, and know you should be preparing, then at this point nothing I say is going to convince anyone to change! The people I am concerned with are those that believe they should be preparing...but just don't have the means to do so...some of my family fall into that category, this means that Once my basic needs are met...I store some of the basics for them...
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 09:48:50 PM by White Tiger »
If you're looking for me, you're probably looking in the wrong place.

gil

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2895
  • SMeter: +77/-3
    • View Profile
    • Radio Preppers
Re: Do YOU Have A Plan?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2012, 04:48:28 PM »
Quote
for next hurricane season.
Quote
sounds like you're somewhere near me...and by extension...Gil...?

Sure sounds like it...?

Anyone within driving distance of Tim and myself should gather in person once in a while for coffee and chat...  :D

Gil.

Gambrinus

  • Guest
Re: Do YOU Have A Plan?
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2012, 06:26:32 PM »
Quote
for next hurricane season.
Quote
sounds like you're somewhere near me...and by extension...Gil...?

Sure sounds like it...?

Anyone within driving distance of Tim and myself should gather in person once in a while for coffee and chat...  :D

Gil.

That would be great.  I'm about as far south on the west side before the alley.  I'll be in mouse town a few days next month for their half marathon.  Pm me if it sounds doable.

White Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 525
  • SMeter: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Do YOU Have A Plan?
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2012, 09:49:35 PM »
Quote
for next hurricane season.
Quote
sounds like you're somewhere near me...and by extension...Gil...?

Sure sounds like it...?

Anyone within driving distance of Tim and myself should gather in person once in a while for coffee and chat...  :D

Gil.

I'm in!
If you're looking for me, you're probably looking in the wrong place.

raybiker73

  • Guest
Re: Do YOU Have A Plan?
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2012, 10:01:03 PM »
From all the talk of hurricanes, I'm going to guess that none of you are near Pittsburgh.  :(

gil

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2895
  • SMeter: +77/-3
    • View Profile
    • Radio Preppers
Re: Do YOU Have A Plan?
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2012, 10:04:39 PM »
Nah, why live in the cold?  8)

Gil.

White Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 525
  • SMeter: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Do YOU Have A Plan?
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2012, 03:10:52 AM »
From all the talk of hurricanes, I'm going to guess that none of you are near Pittsburgh.  :(

Who would LIVE in Pittsburg?

I'm actually/originally from about 100 or so miles to the West of Pittsburgh....Home of the Buckeyes!
If you're looking for me, you're probably looking in the wrong place.

Gambrinus

  • Guest
Re: Do YOU Have A Plan?
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2012, 10:15:27 AM »
My plan is to stay put unless that becomes impossible.  Currently my car is not suited for traveling through severe weather so if a hurricane was coming my way, I would have to make the decision to bug out days before.  At least I would have several bug out locations if needed.  If I stay, I?m in pretty good shape and post storm would be the biggest concern. I don?t have a generator yet and I?m holding out for a propane one with a buried tank. I will probably have a better suited car for next hurricane season.  I don?t have a means for growing food but I have the ocean.  There are also a few lakes/ponds in my hood I?m thinking about stocking when no one is looking.  If the S that hit?s the F is not weather related (becoming more likely), I?m still better off behind my concrete walls.
Sounds like you're plan is similar to my plan - it also sounds like you're somewhere near me...and by extension...Gil...?
One of my biggest problems is my wife works in another state and we go back and forth.  Sometimes I?m there and sometimes she is here. Most times we are not together so it?s very possible that if the S did hit, we would be hundreds of miles apart and if it was bad, we would be better off staying where we are rather than traveling so I?m pretty much on my own as well.
This is a PERFECT option! I believe that certain SHTF events call for "Bugging In", while another set of variables and situations would dictate "Bugging Out" (the duration of the event, the problems associated with traffic exiting a state before an event, the organized  response to an event, and the relative estimation of security of your location and the civil support).

I say your situation is PERFECT because - depending on where your wife works - you could design around a bigger SHTF event (or an event that has a more complicated response (like an Earthquake, long term power-grid failure, or the shear number of events that government must respond to over a large area). Have you thought about buying a BOL and stocking it with similar supplies/equipment? That's what I mean by your situation being perfect! No matter what, you would have a fall back location. And what makes it all the more perfect is that most of us have to talk our wives, significant others into the idea of considering buying a survival retreat - you already have that taken care of!

Have you ever considered that if your wife holds at least a tech license - she could communicate with you? In the unfortunate event something did happen while you were apart - you would have a peace of mind that A) you would KNOW she's safe, and B) she would KNOW you were safe - if the worst did happen! C) you could coordinate last minute items before deciding to go where she is!
I?m a CERT sector leader and now a member of our county emergency operations through the local Amateur radio club.  I?m building up my radio equipment and our local city/county fire and EOC are VERY supportive.  We are exploring how we can improve our communications and looking into the possibility of adding repeaters in dead areas. I was very surprised just how supportive they actually are.  They even opened up their fire and police training facility and instructors for advanced training.  They promise more training and support to come.  They are also very protective of us by keeping other county agencies from trying to tap into the resource for things we are not trained or suited for such as manning shelters (no thanks).
I was becoming interested in the CERT program - but I heard a few stories that concerned me about areas where the authorities were NOT so supportive and did expect ALL volunteers to be chess pieces to be moved into any role THEY decide for THEIR resources...

Like you said - sorry - I'm just NOT the guy you want listening to complaints about the shelter blankets not being thick enough, not being long enough, or the lights being too bright...
I speak to my CERT team for the necessity for prepping but I don?t advertise outside of that and even there, I only go into detail about a bug out bag and a few days of food. I don?t ever show and tell, if friends don?t prep, they don?t need to know of someone elses.
Good plan. Ive had unexpected visitors to my home that discovered some of my stash...usually they turn to me with a quizzical look/raised eyebrow...I just tell them "if you've lived through a hurricane, you know what that's for..."

I'm concerned others aren't preparing - early on I warned as many as I could that they needed to do something. Now, though, if you can't read THESE tea-leaves, and know you should be preparing, then at this point nothing I say is going to convince anyone to change! The people I am concerned with are those that believe they should be preparing...but just don't have the means to do so...some of my family fall into that category, this means that Once my basic needs are met...I store some of the basics for them...

You should take a look at your local CERT program.  As with most volunteer organizations you have to sift through the floaters.  But I?ve meet some pretty capable people and have been making good connections with fire/ems/eoc that can?t be a bad thing.  If for nothing else it?s some free training that you can always use for yourself and there is never any requirement that you show up.


I won't be happy if wife and I are unable to join up in an event unrelated to a natural (localized) disaster.  Man made events are the only ones that can paralyze and render very large portions of the country unsafe.

White Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 525
  • SMeter: +11/-0
    • View Profile
Do YOU Have A Plan?
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2012, 02:45:37 PM »
Interesting stuff Gambrinus, and it reminded me of a conversation with a fellow ham friend of mine. that's when I concluded this hang-up Im having about following thru on seeking to volunteer/train is that - There are two different motivations between Preppers and emergency coordination teams. The thing that intrigued me about aligning with a volunteer group is that I might be able to develop/use new skills...but the more I talked to more experienced Ham operators, the more I have come to realize that clubs of specific interest, and/or field days & hamfests could be just as beneficial.

I got into radio to further develop my sense of community - of likeminded folks - aware of the problems we're facing and are committed to preparing for the worst. After some careful consideration, I concluded (for me) that my limited time has to be spent continuing to add to the strength of my preparations and those of my immediate "community". I am aware of CERT and other emergency response volunteer groups - and they're charter - but (to me) the situation has really moved beyond "normal". This means I have to make sure my current plans work, and if not (like...oops, my antenna mast crashed...) what'd I do wrong, what can I do to differently next time?

Not that there is anything wrong with folks motivated to help to provide assistance after an emergency, especially under more normalized conditions...I just think (for me), these are not normal times and we need to develop skills for maintaining contact on a more personal/non-continuity-of-government type level. Just people talking to people.

nothing wrong with training to look after hordes folks I don't know, to a problem I may or may not have seen coming - just that for now, and for me...for one of the first times in my life Im trying to make sure my motivation is for those closest to me for a problem I am convinced is coming - that not too many folks seem worried about.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 02:49:15 PM by White Tiger »
If you're looking for me, you're probably looking in the wrong place.

Gambrinus

  • Guest
Re: Do YOU Have A Plan?
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2012, 04:15:38 PM »
I couldn't agree more.  The way I look at it is there will be different levels and sources of s that will be hitting the fan. My priority will always be me and my family.  In a way, joining CERT and the ham radio team is in the worse case helping me prep for when it all breaks down to little or no gubmint. During a low level event, if I can help my neighbors that's great.  Something more and things will change. 

gil

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2895
  • SMeter: +77/-3
    • View Profile
    • Radio Preppers
Re: Do YOU Have A Plan?
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2012, 04:15:57 PM »
Quote
Not that there is anything wrong with folks motivated to help to provide assistance after an emergency, especially under more normalized conditions...I just think (for me), these are not normal times and we need to develop skills for maintaining contact on a more personal/non-continuity-of-government type level. Just people talking to people.

Amen!

Gil.

WA4STO

  • Guest
Re: Do YOU Have A Plan?
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2012, 08:14:18 PM »
Not that there is anything wrong with folks motivated to help to provide assistance after an emergency, especially under more normalized conditions...I just think (for me), these are not normal times and we need to develop skills for maintaining contact on a more personal/non-continuity-of-government type level. Just people talking to people.

Amen, indeed.

For some decades now, I've looked to the Amateur Radio Service for help understanding the Part 97 "basis and purpose".  One of those purposes has always been public service communications.

So, in the 70s, I found myself marshalling my ARES troops (I was the ARRL Section Manager for Virginia at the time) around the North Anna nuclear power plant, showing the VA Office of Emergency Management just how clever we were, passing traffic around the area in what would have been the evacuation plan for the State.

In the 80s, I found myself marshalling a different set of troops, this time around the Pilgrim Nuclear Power plant in Massachusetts in what had by then become part of the national plan for evacuations, primarily so that the plants could be certified as having a viable "safety plan".  Hoo boy...

And in the 90s, I found myself at ARRL HQ, meeting with the 'served agencies' (Red Cross, APCO, Salvation Army, and the federal SHARES program, run by the National Communications System.)  There's an interesting read about SHARES and NCS, which you can see here:

http://www.ncs.gov/library/issuances/NCSM%203-3-1.pdf

It finally dawned on me that these programs and agencies had precious little to do with public service communications and everything to do with helping the agencies.  The agencies?!  Yup.  Same ones that are getting millions of new bucks from the Department of Justice Assistance program.  They don't need us any more.  The DOJ feeds the states with cash, the States disperse it, usually, to the LEOs.  The LEOs replace their VHS-based cameras in the cruisers with slick new digital ones, and in turn for the cash, the LEOs put the data (it's all data now, ya see) onto their servers, and the Fusion Centers suck it all up, where it will get stored -- most likely -- in some bizarre NSA facility in Utah.  Everybody's happy, cept for those concerned about their rights to privacy. 

When we were working with the agencies to craft or re-establish the memoranda of understanding with them, did we ever contemplate "making a deal" with the public?  Uh, that would be a no.

On a related topic (honest, it is), there was a time, prior to the 90s, when business was not allowed to be conducted via amateur radio.  And there's a fair number of old timers among us who think that's still the case.  It's not.  We did away with that Part 97 rule (or more accurately, we severely modified it) in circa 1990.

In the years prior to 1990, we used to get into some pretty bizarre "debates" (often on the air) about not conducting business.  Here's three examples that immediately come to mind:

1.   QSL bureaus are volunteer groups who accept mass mailings of QSL cards from overseas, sort them, and mail them to the Stateside amateurs.  It's somewhat more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it.  And we would frequently see radiograms going around, stating that Joe Q. Ham had six ounces of cards waiting for him at the bureau.  But hams love debates.  And they bitched, moaned, and carried on about how those particular radiograms were conducting the "regular business" of the bureaus.  Sheesh.

2.  The American Red Cross would frequently use the Amateur Radio Service to send radiograms hither and yon, asking for blood, donations, help manning a race, whatever.  Same complaints.

3.  Hospitals developed extensive hospital disaster communications systems.  Same complaints, believe it or not.

Did all of the so-called problems get solved when we rewrote the rules?  Nope.  But first, let's see what the new rules entail.  It's simple:  Licensed radio amateurs are forbidden from communicating via ham radio in ways that would be of "pecuniary interest" to themselves OR THEIR EMPLOYERS.

Voila, now we could use the autopatch to call for a pizza, unless you happen to work for Dominos.  Couldn't do that before.

But, guess what, hospital employees were, well, employees, after all.  New rules didn't help them with their emergency communications needs.  Ditto for the Red Cross and for ARRL HQ folks who still couldn't accept a radiogram asking a question about their Worked All States application.

I haven't been paying attention the last decade or so, but I understand that the FCC has examined some of these issues and made decisions based on what the intent of the new rules was.  That'd be good.

Anyway, I find it refreshing that the folks here on this board (thanks, Gil -- you're the best!) are beginning to understand that "the public" is getting itself a far different definition these days.  No longer is it the local Sheriff's Office, the State OES, or the bajillions of federal agencies that comprise "the public".  The public is us.

73 de WA4STO