Radio Preppers

Hello.

I have been thinking for a while of a preppers calling frequency. We need an "official" frequency people can go to if the SHTF. There are few of us and chasing each other all over the HF bands would not be very productive in an emergency. It would also be nice to have a frequency to park on when the radio is kept on in the background. A recent post made me decide to propose the idea now. The question is, where? Here are the requirements I have been mulling over:

This frequency must:

• Allow NVIS operations for regional range communications.
• Be between or around the junction of CW, SSB and digital modes.
• Not require an overly long antenna.
• Work day and night, mostly around dawn and dusk.
• Work during trough of solar cycle, summer and winter.
• Be accessible to users globally i.e. not above 7200 or 3800kHz, etc.

I can't think of a better band than 40m, 7mHz.

The frequency would be used with all modes, including three main modes I would like to propose:

• CW. For its efficiency and simplicity of the rigs.
• USB. To allow the use of military radios and differentiate between calls intended to preppers and regular users.
• PSK-31. For efficiency and to allow for preppers who do not know Morse code.

The above list is in order of preference.

I propose 7100kHz.

Unless everyone is on board to promote this frequency this effort will go nowhere... Comments and suggestions are welcome.

Gil.

Hi Gil,

Nice idea. Btw I am that guy from youtube that proposed a sked ;)

I love the idea, the only downside, E-Level Hams from Germany are not allowed to access the 40m Band, so we might consider another Frequency on the 80m Band. I personally would suggest even three in 80, 60 and 40 plus a priority for 40 for example. I know this way things get more complicated, but in order to be flexible enough a set of Band might be cool.

Anyways, I am in and will promote any descision we make on my Blog.

73
DJ6KR


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QuoteI love the idea, the only downside, E-Level Hams from Germany are not allowed to access the 40m Band, so we might consider another Frequency on the 80m Band.

Thank you, and welcome aboard :) 80m is a great band, but a half wave is 40m long! Making a practical antenna for 80m is a challenge. The 40m band is not going to fit everyone's need, but I do believe it is the best one. I hear plenty of Germans on 40m ;)

Nice blog: http://cq-jena.de/WP/en/ (http://cq-jena.de/WP/en/)

We should definitely try a sked after I put my 80m Windom antenna back up. I have no trouble reaching Germany regularly from here (near Lille). We could make a video of the contact viewed from both ends...

Gil.

Hey Gil,

Thanks for the welcome :)

Yes of course there are many A-Level Hams on the 40m Band in Germany. And as I said I like the Idea of using this as "our" main Band. But to be really reliable one would whish to be able to change the band with changing F_opt or changing MUF respectively.

I did not link my blog, as I don't want to look like I am only here to promote myself and a lot of it is in German... anyways, thanks a lot for posting it :)

I personally use a buddipole / EndFed Verticals / LHKA Antennas / Randomwires etc. and eventhough they do get huge on 80m, I did always manage du work propperly /p!!

Anyways, IF my wife and or my PhD Thesis allow me to, I will collect information on how to make directed and planned HF-Comms possible, favoravly with QRP & /p stations.

Definite yes for the sked Video :)

This would add in great to my planned article on planned HF-comms.

73
Konrad
DJ6KR


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Excellent, we'll talk about it soon. I should be putting my antenna back up around the 15th of March. However, I might operate 80m outside for an upcoming video on the W3EDP antenna... That could be as soon as today, tomorrow or next week.

Gil.

I agree wholeheartedly that it should be on 40 meters, 80 meters and lower requires a huge antenna and propagation is not consistent enough above 40 meters. One disadvantage to 7.100 MHz is that none of the crystal controlled micro rigs work there, but then I'm biased towards CW. Of coarse it's sort of a chicken and egg situation; if the frequency becomes well established and popular, more rock bound rigs will be built/sold for that frequency.

I like 40.  It's a good, workhorse of a band.  Which is why it's used so much.  Although, depending on band conditions, it'd probably be a good idea to have a secondary band/frequency.  I remember when Mt St. Helen's blew its top, radio traffic was sent sent on 6 meters via Australia.

Also, for the CW ops, you'll probably want to have some sort of abbreviated call for the group so you don't have to spell out R-A-D-I-O-P-R-etc.  Something along the lines of PRP (as in CQ PRP) or RPN.  Personally, I like RPN (for Radio Preppers Network) as it is quite lyrical in CW.  Just sayin'.

MaryAnn, NS7X

For me, living at almost 48 North, NVIS during low sun numbers is not going to happen on forty, even in the afternoon.  80m here is very , very reliable out to 350 miles, even with a low wire.  For preparedness, I've found that the 'one-tank-of-gas-distance' is the most important to me, personally.  As MaryAnn pointed-out, the big bang of that volcano, flooding and other emergencies have me quite interested in what is happening among family and friends within driving distance. If it's an actual emergency/disaster, then reliefe locations for water, food and single malt Scotch (yum!) is going to be important - the closer the better.

For northern USA (Europe and Canada etc.) Lower frequencies are required for NVIS than for more southerly locations.  80m is working for me very well for regional skeds, until VERY late at night when the MUF moves below 3.5 Hz for NVIS. daylight on 80m right now (solar minima) is surprisingly good, doing what 40m does during the solar cycle times of higher sun numbers.

A Note About Antennas: EFHW on 80m is 40 m : true enough.  However a square, horizontal loop is only 20 meters on a side - still large, but possibly manageable at low height and ideal for NVIS.  The QUARTER WAVE antenna with wire counterpoise along the ground is very easy to erect , lower visibility and not a bad performer for comms within Europe (when I was there back in dinosaur days   ;-) 

73 de RadioRay  ..._  ._

In the Summertime 80 meters has lots of QRN due to lightning from thunderstorms. I think 40 meters would be best, above 7200 because some of us only have General lic.  CW on 40 would be great but my CW skill is almost 0. I will watch and see what you decide, if I hear a good open spot I will let you know. 73'S  KA5SIW

When I lived in The South, yes indeed - QRN from T-storms was tough on the lower bands.  The continual T-storms in the tropics made quite a racket year round, but only for the HIGH 80 m dipole I had at 110 feet. However, here in the northern part of the continent, we rarely have that level of T-storm induced noise, unless a local storm is on top of us.

Timing matters as well. making skeds for morning or noon , avoided the southern T-storms noise for me.  Band choice is based on propagation though, so if you have no path between the two stations, then the noise does not matter.


>RadioRay  ..._  ._

I agree with RadioRay - here in EI there are long periods where 40M is practically unusable for NVIS contacts - contacts on 40M within Ireland & UK can be problematic, even for stations running QRO with efficient antenna systems.

60M is more reliable for NVIS and I'm glad we're after getting a small slice of it to use. But due to the limited bandwidth and the fact it hasnt been approved by all members, leaves us with 80M.

Out of necessity I spend time experimenting with compromise antennas and I have managed to rig a primitive 80M setup indoors, using attic space for the antenna and the internal central heating pipes as ground. It works surprisingly well for local comms - the layout seems to ensure the signal is sent straight up.

Ideally it would be nice to have centre of activity frequencies on all available bands, but if we even start with identifying and agreeing on freqs for 80, 40 & 20 that's going to be great.

Keep in mind that there really doesn't need to be a frequency which everyone can use to communicate with everybody else.  Hams have a long history of relaying radio traffic if direct communications aren't available.  (Hence the American Radio RELAY League.)  Although coverage will likely be spotty, those who wish to communicate with family members who are several hundred miles away are a lot more likely to find a ham who can relay the message(s) than they are to get those family members licensed as hams.  This is yet another reason why radio skills need to be practiced before the poo hits the blower.  Er, I mean the shtf.

MaryAnn, NS7X

PERSONAL CHOICE TO FOLLOW:

I always said that 'If you are NOT talking to someone now on a regular schedule, you will likely not be talking to them in an emergency.".  There is one emergency communications team I've seen regularly practice running several nets per month in several modes. They also run multi-day,  'scenario based'  communications practice exercises at least once per per year (one is always scheduled, the others are quick reaction nets, which 'happen' on short notice) . This team is the American Redoubt Radio Operators Network (AmRRON). Despite the name, they are already international, being in Canada and the Caribbean.

Here is their website:  www.amrron.com


They have a Signal Operating Instruction (SOI) booklet available for download or in a bound paper copy for a very moderate fee.  The link to their SOI is below. It has provision for hams and non-hams to communicate (legally in the USA) by using FRS, GMRS, MURS and CB as defines under US law, but these provisions would work with the European 4XX MHz FM  'CB' and perhaps other systems in other regions which are short-range, non-licensed radio operations, fed to an area ham for relays of critical information.

https://amrron.com/webstore/?product_cat=comms-s-o-i (https://amrron.com/webstore/?product_cat=comms-s-o-i)

I am not paid for any AmRRON activity. This review is based on years of operating with them.

Have a look and see if the shoe fits for you. Of the networks I've seen and participated with down through the decades, this is the best and they are not tied to ARES/RACES, though many of their operators are also attached with them.

Here is the AmRRON mission statement:  https://amrron.com/about/ (https://amrron.com/about/)





de RadioRay  ..._  ._

I like 80m, it does NVIS very well. How would it work between say Europe and the United States?

Gil

EU to US on 80m was not very common for me , even when I lived next to to ocean in Virginia with all that wire up 110 feet. It was SOLID on 80m when the EU station also had a large and high antenna: a rarity in most of Europe, you are fortunate to have that much space available.  However, early to mid-afternoon east coast time , 17 m was filled with EU stations and no contests. I used to talk with many of them while I was mobile on the 16ft whip and old marine radio.

RadioRay ...-  .-

In the end we can't trick physics, so if we want to talk, we will have to adjust the frequencies to the required distances. Even having one Freq. per band, would already make encounters petty likely. Now imagine doing the planning via WinLink before and everyone ist in the "net" :)


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80m is certainly a much needed band. I would like to start with one band. No need to add more right from the start if nobody uses the first one... The last time we tried to do something of that nature it didn't work... So let's start with 40m. My Windom won't be up until probably the third week of March. In the mean time, we can discuss a frequency to be used on all modes, pros and cons. I propose 7100kHz. Opinions?
If we can make a few contacts and promote the frequency, we'll move on to 80m next.

Gil.

As said before, I am in. I will give it a try on my next /p trip with PSK31 and maybe SSB Voice. 7110 kHz is the center of IARU Region 1 Emergency Comms, and 7090 kHz is the QRP Center, so we would be in a great neighborhood :) All modes are ok there and most Radio can go up to that point. So from my point of view: It's a yes!

73
DJ6KR



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Hi Guys, work and family lfe have had me A.W.O.L. for a while but I'm seeing a little free time.  Good to see the activity here.

7.100MHz sounds good.  Looking at the ARRL band plan chart I see something interesting.

QuotePhone and Image modes are permitted between 7.025 and 7.100MHz for FCC licensed stations in ITU regions 1 and 3 and ...in Region 2 West of 130degrees West...

.  130degrees West is west of the California coast so I guess no SSB for me on 7.100.  That's just fine with me.

Bob, I don't remember that! So, 7103 would allow SSB?

Gil

Look in the lower left corner of this chart.  Hopefully one of the experts here can tell me I'm interpreting it wrong.
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Band%20Chart/Hambands_color.pdf
Also note the last sentence:  "These exemptions do not apply to stations in the continental U.S."

In the upper right corner it says "CW operation is permitted throughout all amateur bands."  Would something just above 7.175MHz make more sense?

Idunno.  It's pretty confusing :o

The issue there is that the US 40M allocation is larger than what we have in Europe, so the CW/Data portion is correspondingly larger. Ultimately though it's just a band plan and using 7.100 for SSB might be frowned upon by the ARRL, it's not illegal. The IARU R2 bandplan indicates 7.103L should be fine: http://www.iaru-r2.org/documents/explorer/files/Plan%20de%20bandas%20%7C%20Band-plan/R2%20Band%20Plan%202016.pdf

Ignore the above - I was wrong. As outlined by Quietguy in post below - it's actually contained in FCC Part 97 regulations.

Gil is right, while additional freqs would be nice - let's try and get one up and running first.

I would love to eventually see it evolving to additional freqs and having the equivalent to the old maritime watch periods so weak stations, or just stations which are trying to conserve their power, know they'll have certain times when we'll be making a deliberate effort to hear them.

It is confusing :o If it's just the band-plan it is just a suggestion. Who cares about the ARRL, they break FCC regulations all the time. The ARRL is more of a contest and big manufacturers promoting agency now, not a message relaying one. They do publish good material, but that's it. They're not the frequency police.

Gil.

No, it isn't an ARRL Band Plan, it is in the FCC Part 97 regulations,  "§97.305   Authorized emission types".  No 40 meter phone from the continental US below 7.125 KHz.  I took this straight from a government web site which has nothing to do with the ARRL:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=336ab7469b61ecbfa15086dbf1bf2c59&rgn=div5&view=text&node=47:5.0.1.1.6&idno=47#se47.5.97_1301

Edit to add:  this link takes you to Paragraph 97.301 which details the limits for each ITU region.  Scroll down to Paragraph 97.305 for details.  Although the entry "7.075-7.100 MHz    Phone, image" appears to authorize Phone, footnote 97.307(f)(11) takes it away for the continental US:

Quote(11) Phone and image emissions may be transmitted only by stations located in ITU Regions 1 and 3, and by stations located within ITU Region 2 that are west of 130° West longitude or south of 20° North latitude.

Wally

Quote from: Quietguy on February 22, 2017, 06:49:08 PM
No, it isn't an ARRL Band Plan, it is in the FCC Part 97 regulations,  "§97.305   Authorized emission types".  No 40 meter phone from the continental US below 7.125 KHz.  I took this straight from a government web site which has nothing to do with the ARRL:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=336ab7469b61ecbfa15086dbf1bf2c59&rgn=div5&view=text&node=47:5.0.1.1.6&idno=47#se47.5.97_1301

Edit to add:  this link takes you to Paragraph 97.301 which details the limits for each ITU region.  Scroll down to Paragraph 97.305 for details.  Although the entry "7.075-7.100 MHz    Phone, image" appears to authorize Phone, footnote 97.307(f)(11) takes it away for the continental US:

Quote(11) Phone and image emissions may be transmitted only by stations located in ITU Regions 1 and 3, and by stations located within ITU Region 2 that are west of 130° West longitude or south of 20° North latitude.

Wally

Thank you for the clarification - that settles it. Will amend my earlier post!

It does strike me as odd though, so that leaves ~75kHz on 40M for phone contacts between US stations and those of us over in R1.

It appears Canada shares data/voice above 7.040: http://wp.rac.ca/wp-content/uploads/files/pdf/CdnBandPlan.jpg

QuoteNo 40 meter phone from the continental US below 7.125

Darn. Well, I really want a frequency that can be used with all modes from anywhere. Back to the drawing board, but we stay on 40m. Too bad because some small CW rigs won't go as high as 7125.

Gil.

Quote from: gil on February 23, 2017, 06:45:54 AM

QuoteNo 40 meter phone from the continental US below 7.125

Darn. Well, I really want a frequency that can be used with all modes from anywhere. Back to the drawing board, but we stay on 40m. Too bad because some small CW rigs won't go as high as 7125.

Gil.

I'm not sure such a frequency legally exists. I don't have a band chart in front of me so I'm just going off of my feeble memory but; it clearly can't be in the CW sub-band as obviously CW is the only allowed emission; it also can't be in the CW/Digital sub-band as phone isn't allowed there; and finally I don't think it can't be in the phone sub-band as I believe digital is not allowed there (correct me if I'm wrong). Fortunately CW is the wild card since it is allowed everywhere on all bands but I'm not sure there's a spot where phone and digital are both allowed.

Quote from: KK0G on February 23, 2017, 08:37:54 AMI'm not sure such a frequency legally exists.

Only on 160 and 60 meters as far as the US is concerned.  Attached is a screen shot of the HF portion of the table I linked above.  Note that 80 meters is defined as 3.525-3.600 MHz and 75 meters is defined as 3.800-4.000 MHz.  40 meters is divided into two segments, 7.025-7.125 MHz and 7.175-7.300 MHz.  You are right, digital modes are not permitted in the phone allocations.

I believe this was one of the reasons the ARRL requested a rule change where the FCC would regulate by bandwidth rather than by mode, but I don't know what happened to that proposal.  There was a lot of objection because some people said they were just trying to turn all the bands over to "robot" digital stations.


Wally

Edit to add:  Full Members can't post images without approval now?  It says my screenshot is waiting for approval.

QuoteOnly on 160 and 60 meters as far as the US is concerned.

That's a shame. I wish there was a frequency allowing all modes on 40m. We'll have to reduce modes then. We can settle on a frequency for both voice and CW. It would have to be above 7125 and below 7200. Digital could be used for dire emergencies only but practice would remain on the digital section of band plans. I would suggest USB as the preferred voice mode to allow for the use of green radios. It would be good to find a source for crystals within those 75kHz for rock-bound radios...

Gil.

40m works for me as well though I'm not on it as much as I should be.  I tend to hang out more on 20m and here lately on 30m doing JT-65.

I like the idea of having an AmRRON-esque type of SOI.  It will help keep everyone's heads about them when the manure impacts upon the oscillating ventilator.

I guess we'll have to reduce modes to SSB and CW for this one. Digital could still be used in a dire emergency or after the SHTF. I propose 7127kHz.

Gil.

I suggest it is kept above 7.175 so that U.S. general class licensees can participate.

7177?

So long as General class licensees aren't running AM or high powered amps that is probably enough space to keep them from interfering into the Extra portion of the band, but it's awfully close. It's an easy number to remember; almost all sevens.

That's what I thought. With a 3kHz SSB signal that leaves a 1500Hz buffer. It should be enough...

Gil

If it is decided here that 7177 is too close to the Extra portion of the band we could alternatively use 7189. A sequence of numbers is almost as easy to remember as all sevens. I haven't looked at detailed gentalman's band plans to see if we are stepping on anybody's toes there.

Hello,

I'd like more feedback on this guys, please. There is also 7185.5 USB but it is an HFPACK frequency, and while nobody owns frequencies there is such a thing as courtesy. That said HFPACK guys probably would like more USB activity on that frequency. I am still suggesting 7177 USB/CW. 7189 is another option.

Gil.

7185.5USB for contact, them move off for one-on-one or diff group.  Most HFPack people would still be on the air during an emergency, especially grid down which would incapacitate most HF hams. (NO CONTESTS -  YAY !!!)

A. You make friends on HFpack, build your regional 'network' m

B. You can use that as a place to stage, relay to your outstations, and move off if needed.




My 0.02 EURO , please correct for inflation.


>RadioRay ..._  ._

Thanks Ray :)

Your 0.02 Euros are worth $0.0212 so feel free to keep the change ;D

I thought it would be a good frequency also... Now, I might suggest 7185 USB/CW. This way it's not too close to 7175 for General license holders, and close enough to 7185.5 for HFPACK guys to think you're just a bit off frequency but will tell people in the know you're transmitting on the RP frequency. We also don't have to remember the .5.

Gil.

Gil.

7185khz USB (+2khz for Clansman HF sets) does it for me, if there's general agreement then should we arrange some regional skeds to check how well this works in the real world?

Hi Andy, yes, that would be step two. Maybe setting a day and time once a week to try making contact on that frequency...

Gil

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I'm in! I'll will definitely try to participate in skeds - cw, ssb, digi - all good.

Great! Let's go for 7185, USB and CW, even cross-mode if needed. No need to think about other frequencies if we can't spread the use of this one. Before choosing a day a harder task is to find a time that might make contacts between the United States, Europe and possibly Australia. I need to look into that. Suggestions are welcome, in Greenwich time. Thanks.

Gil.

Propagation is a real challenge these days - even for EU only call ins.

Some tools to help:
http://www.voacap.com/p2p/index.html

FoF2 (CF):
http://www.sws.bom.gov.au/HF_Systems/6/5
http://digisonde.oma.be/latestFrames.htm

Thanks Scarr, I need to allocate a couple hours to research this...  :)

Gil.

Quote from: gil on May 01, 2017, 02:38:22 PM
Thanks Scarr, I need to allocate a couple hours to research this...  :)

Gil.

Ditto.  Those charts will take some learning to interpret, but I bet there's real valuable info in them.

foF2 is the Critical frequency in a given location - the highest frequency you can knock straight up and have it come straight back down, vital for deciding on NVIS regional comms. I've kept an eye on it lately and the frequency is rarely going near 7MHz - meaning if you want local HF comms, you've got to decide between 80M or 60M.

From foF2, a rule of thumb is that the Maximum Usable Frequency will be three times foF2 - so if foF2 is hovering around 5MHz and it's daylight in Europe and North America, well - generally - no point trying to cross the pond on 10 Metres, your best bet is likely to be ~20M.

The VOACap page is really useful for calculating likely condx between any two points on various bands. Just feed in the locations and to be honest, for the most accurate prediction - put the sunspots at zero. The (11) sunspots we have at the moment are miniscule and have little if any impact on the solar flux level. SF is at 75 at this moment - from the last solar minimum, I remember that figure dipping into the 60's. In short, that means forget the higher HF bands.

This all goes back to something gil and others have said - if people just expect to fire up a HF rig in a SHTF situation and talk with little or no experience - forget it.

The charts aren't 100% necessary, but they inform operational experience - e.g. if I'm on 40M at 1PM local and I'm hearing no Irish or UK stations, but Germany is booming in, I know foF2 is less than 7MHz.

If we ever have to use HF in a scenario where mains is out, spending time listening first is going to be vital - when you've decided on where you'd like to contact, you've got to figure out what's happening with the bands before keying. No point blasting 100W into the ether on 20M when 5W on 80M will get the desired result. Power could be precious.

I wondered if anything yet has been desided for a 80m Prepper calling frequency. If not I will throw my hat into the ring and suggest 3.675 USB for UK inter G and parts of mainland Europe.

My group would be willing to do some testing to see if this frequency is suitable.

Quotesuggest 3.675 USB for UK inter G and parts of mainland Europe.

Are there any digital modes around there?
Otherwise, I wonder if 3685 would rhyme better with 7185...
Nobody is using 7185 USB yet, so maybe concentrating on it now would be better, then we can move on to 80m once there is traffic on 40m...
What do you think?

Gil.

I will give it a try. Will sit on 3.685 for a week and see if is used for any regular nets. Will let you know. Have been monitoring 7185 USB and putting out the occasional call with no response thus far.
There being no NIVS on 40M it is hard to work inter G on this frequency. Larry

QuoteThere being no NIVS on 40M it is hard to work inter G on this frequency.

There has to be some going on... I know this is no longer Florida, but I've experienced some here, from near Lille to England.

Gil.