Radio Preppers

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: White Tiger on September 29, 2012, 04:49:22 AM

Title: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: White Tiger on September 29, 2012, 04:49:22 AM
OK, assuming we get licensed - what do all of you licensed amateur radio operators plan to do if your various scenarios of SHTF, play out?

What are your plans?

Here are my plans: Locally, I am part of a group of 4/5 families (about 18-20 people) that live within about a 20 to 30 mile radius, we're prepping independently, but doing it together (planning to bug in). We don't tell each other what to do - we just made out a list of things we needed to do separately, once we accomplished those things, we agreed that communicating between the families was necessary. I agreed to be the communications link - each family said they would get their Tech license, I agreed to get what I could - hopefully at least General (be the control operator?). I have a HF radio - and plan to use a fan dipole - and am also planning to use a NVIS configuration (although I'm not quite sure which band would be best to operate it on...40 meters, 20?)...but that will take some experimenting?

In case of SHTF, my day-to-day plan would be to monitor certain frequencies and send bulletins down range...And again, although I say I would monitor certain frequencies - I don't really know which one's (nets?) would be good to pick up information? 

I also have about 3 more family members at some distance (nearly 500 miles away), and NVIS should work for them as well - just gotta figure out what frequency/band would work best.

Anyway - that's as far as I've gotten.

How about you?
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: KC9TNH on September 29, 2012, 08:42:44 AM
I think your focus on linking with a core group is a superb start. Many are isolated, and that includes many suburbanites who live 50' from 4 different families they know nothing about.

Keep the dialogue open between those you trust, don't discuss micro-level details of your practices on the internet. As with reloading ammo, it's less about one's specific recipe than about consistency of your practices. Find what works for your group, staying in touch regularly.

As to the hardware side of the solution if you're limited in space, a good balanced antenna up around 30-35ft (I'm gonna take some flack for this, fire away) can get you many of the HF things you want. Remember that NVIS is a technique, not a hardware solution. You're just utilizing a different take-off angle and gives you that near-range plume like a rising bran muffin. In terms of 75m or 40m it's not gonna go as far as on 20m because it's not high enough relative to the band you're talking on. It's a nice 1/2-wave high for 20 giving alot of distance because of the lower take-off angle, not so for 40 or 75/80.  But that makes for different signals characteristics that benefit, for lack of a better term, where you want your words to land.

Learn about the characteristics of what band(s) work at what time of the day by getting your General and getting on the air. With some exceptions there is no requirement to keep a logbook - BUT - if you do keep a rudimentary log and actually do the analysis work later sitting down with a cup of coffee and a piece of paper you can understand what your setup is doing for you.

If possible always ask for a real signal report; the first of the 2 numbers being the most important (readability, how many times do I have to ask you to say your location) - signal strength is less important, we're not into ego-inflating reports of broadcast audio. Key question is can the information to be exchanged be passed accurately in the minimum amount of time?

MCRP 6-22D: The USMC version of the MIL world's field antenna handbook; it's also the best illustrated of all the service versions. Get it, read it, all of it. It will teach as well as advise.  Google is your friend and it's a not-bad 192pg .PDF download from a variety of places. If you can locate a hardcopy version in the older "fits in a field-jacket pocket" size, snatch it up.
:)

Edit to add in response to your original topic question: We learn.
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: White Tiger on September 29, 2012, 09:49:15 AM
Thanks for the encouragement, but more importantly - the specific detailed options!

I JUST downloaded the USMC Antenna book to my iPhone - and even in that format it is ;aid out very well!

I was also cautioned about finding a couple of HF frequencies - one for daylight, one after sunset...and that take off angle issue will make that a bit of a challenge!

Than ks again - are there any published processes or emergency manuals written specifically for periods of civil unrest? Any recommendations as to the type of emergency teams you guys participate in, locally? If so, do they have planning/preparedness processes?
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: KC9TNH on September 29, 2012, 10:44:05 AM
Quote from: White Tiger on September 29, 2012, 09:49:15 AMI was also cautioned about finding a couple of HF frequencies - one for daylight, one after sunset...and that take off angle issue will make that a bit of a challenge!
It can be less of a challenge if you think of it in terms of what is the ionosphere doing (or going to allow). Forgive the verbose treatment but here's how it went in a discussion with #1 genius grand-daughter. Simplistic, but sometimes it pays not to over-complicate stuff. Not being condescending here.

Think of skipping a rock across the water, there are optimum angles at which you hit the water allowing ricochet of the rock. If that water were oatmeal, well, plomp the rock is just gonna get absorbed. Although it REALLY has to do with the properties of the ionosphere, I tend to think of it as jello. I took a baking dish of just-made jello and flung an airsoft pellet at it.  Plomp. During the day alot of stuff gets absorbed - in general - but when it cools it skips off. You can hit that well-congealed jello at a pretty acute angle from above (or below if you're the antenna) and it's still gonna bounce back.

In radio you need to remember that not everyone has daylight & night when you do. But for regional stuff it's less of a factor. I have seen it in the early AM where I couldn't talk on 40m to someone 180 miles away and 10 minutes later it's like they're in my living room, as the sun gets a few more degrees above the horizon. For brief periods it helps to understand grayline effect; do your research, worth knowing.

CAVEAT: Because the resulting antenna lengths are so different way out at the end of the wire I tend to differentiate between 80 & 75m (CW vs. SSB). Out there smaller freq changes still result in notable differences in terms of length.

QRP CW amigo Geoff AE4RV has more time & talent than I do; you can check out the amateur radio piece of his website HERE (http://ae4rv.com/tn/) and look at his flash-animated propagation primer - as well as a pretty cool animated display of how a traditional CW "bug" works.

"In general" (again, pretty simplistic) in the absence of some other solar or geo-magnetic stuff, 75m is a good NVIS band at night and in decent conditions 100w AND a decent antenna will get you what you need. Ditto for 40m during most of the day, as well as night time, although at night foreign broadcast stations (who don't adhere to the same band plans as the US) might fire up and you'll hear alot of heavy hitters that will blow your regional chat with the relatives away. Use 75m then. (75m also seems to have a period during peak mid-day that works well also.) Wanna go coast to coast? Under normal conditions, in general, 20m is your ticket.

Think of your solution that will work on a band, not a given frequency. You may get there and it's busy. So the plan for a schedule ("sked") with someone has to include that, e.g., "Start at 3985, down till clear [of other stations], I'll call you." In simple terms you've now done part of what the mil services call a CEOI or SOI. (use your acronym finder).

Gotta go cut grass & get some chow.
:)


Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: WA4STO on September 29, 2012, 11:31:12 AM
Quote from: KC9TNH on September 29, 2012, 10:44:05 AM
Think of your solution that will work on a band, not a given frequency.

WT:  KC9TNH raises some very good points, which I tend to encapsulate as "band flexibility".

Don't forget that you're WAY ahead of the game by deciding on / purchasing / erecting a fan dipole that covers a number of different bands.

(http://www.hurderconsulting.net/radiostuff/fandipole.jpg)

As I understand the one you're putting up this weekend, the "A" in the graphic above represents the 75/80 meter dipole, while the "B" shows the 40 meter one (which will also allow for 15 meter use!) as well as "C" which will be for 10 meters.

The beauty of that antenna, other than the fact that you only have to piddle with ONE feed line, is that you've got an enormous amount of flexibility.  Which is crucial to your efforts. 

If your group/family is X miles away, you may find that the 40 meter antenna just isn't gonna cut it at a particular time of day/night, whereas 80 or 20 might just be perfect.  TNH is correct about that as well.

He brings up another point that will require some thought on your part -- probably today, or at least this weekend, as you're getting things set up.  At some point, you're going to need to decide on whether that 80 meter portion is resonant higher up, in the 75 meter part of the band, (say 3.900 mHz or thereabouts) , or lower down in the digital area, around 3.6 mHz. 

In my case, I've got it set at 3.6 as that's where the digital networks are located.  But ... see ...  ya can't easily have it both ways.  My antenna is so NOT resonant on 3.900, that I would have to adjust (compress or separate) the 80 and 40 meter coils to get a decent match. 

In your case (here comes the planning part), you COULD have it both ways.  My strong guess is that the folks who made your fan dipole cut the 80 meter portion up on 3.900-ish.  So, to make it (the antenna) work down in "my" portion of the band, you could add some length to each side of the dipole, and connect the two pieces on each side by way of jumpers or even Anderson power pole connectors. 

I think you've decided on allowing the fan dipole to be raised/lowered via rope and pulleys at the center conductor, which would make the whole process fairly simple.

For now, if my guess is right, you'll be golden on the voice portion of the band.  Oh!  And that's where SSTV happens as well, strangely enough...

73 de WA4STO
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: KC9TNH on September 29, 2012, 01:24:15 PM
Quote from: WA4STO on September 29, 2012, 11:31:12 AM
Don't forget that you're WAY ahead of the game by deciding on / purchasing / erecting a fan dipole that covers a number of different bands.
Thanks for a very neat pic, which says more than my motor-mouthed many words. That's a really versatile antenna if you've got the real-estate to put it up.

Long time ago in a galaxy far away a girl I was seeing & served with used that alot because she found herself stuck out in the boonies with her RATT rig and a freq table from the HQ that she summed up as "they don't know what they wanna be when they grow up." The fan dipole kept her from leaving the warmth of her rig below the military crest of a hill to rig yet another dipole based on whatever some LT thought of at the moment. Good choice if you can get it up & high enough. Thanks for that.
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: WA4STO on September 29, 2012, 01:28:21 PM
Quote from: White Tiger on September 29, 2012, 04:49:22 AM

In case of SHTF, my day-to-day plan would be to monitor certain frequencies and send bulletins down range...



With regard to the sending of bulletins, there's a coupla "gotchas" there you need to be aware of.

1.  It's contrary to the FCC Part 97 rules to transmit bulletins to the general public over ham radio frequencies.  That's the theory anyway.  The cure is to actually be in QSO with somebody, which is not only allowed but encouraged by the rules.

The way we used to accomplish that is to set up BBS systems on, say RTTY, Amtor, whatever.  Then, by sending a message which includes a bulletin to "WA4STO", for example, the bulletin would then be read by numerous licensed folks and it matters not that your family/group "listens in" and sees your bulletin.

2.  Can't for the life of me remember what the second of "a coupla gotachas" was.  I'll get back to ya on that.

I spotted something yesterday on http://survivingsurvivalism.com/blog.htm (http://survivingsurvivalism.com/blog.htm) that REALLY caught my eye.  There's a couple of blog articles there relating to ham radio, with mention of the fact that a third article will be covering the use of RTTY for related use in the aftermath of SHTF. 

Now these articles, so far, don't always focus too well on the need for an amateur radio license which, to me. seems to indicate that they are suggesting it in a 'freeband' environment.  It's the IDEA of using an ancient technology like RTTY that is very interesting.  Your bulletin-sending is a prime part of that.

73 de WA4STO
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: Frosty on September 29, 2012, 01:42:11 PM
Quote from: White Tiger on September 29, 2012, 09:49:15 AM
are there any published processes or emergency manuals written specifically for periods of civil unrest? Any recommendations as to the type of emergency teams you guys participate in, locally? If so, do they have planning/preparedness processes?

Might look for the Emergency Operations Plan (EOP) for your city, township, county, and/or state.  My state police also have their own EOP with the unclassified sections available online.  The FEMA course material (on ICS in particular) might be a good place to start on the federal response plan.

These prepper groups have outlined disaster communications plans:
http://www.radiofreeredoubt.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/AmRRON-Communication-Plan_18-July-Public.pdf
http://www.catastrophenetwork.org/
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: Jonas Parker on September 29, 2012, 02:47:28 PM
I'm a member of several traffic nets. My plan when the shoe drops is simple -  log on the traffic net that reception is best on and get to work...
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: White Tiger on September 30, 2012, 12:07:26 AM
Quote from: WA4STO on September 29, 2012, 11:31:12 AM
Quote from: KC9TNH on September 29, 2012, 10:44:05 AM
Think of your solution that will work on a band, not a given frequency.

WT:  KC9TNH raises some very good points, which I tend to encapsulate as "band flexibility".

Don't forget that you're WAY ahead of the game by deciding on / purchasing / erecting a fan dipole that covers a number of different bands.

(http://www.hurderconsulting.net/radiostuff/fandipole.jpg)

As I understand the one you're putting up this weekend, the "A" in the graphic above represents the 75/80 meter dipole, while the "B" shows the 40 meter one (which will also allow for 15 meter use!) as well as "C" which will be for 10 meters.

The beauty of that antenna, other than the fact that you only have to piddle with ONE feed line, is that you've got an enormous amount of flexibility.  Which is crucial to your efforts.

Yes! it is a good thing I listened to you regarding the type of antenna would be best for my needs!

I think this brings upo a great point: If you are a new ham, or concisdering becoming a ham - I think it is important to find an experienced ham that you can build some trust with -and bounce ideas off, get input from. Luck WA4STO has been that for me.

Quote from: WA4STO on September 29, 2012, 11:31:12 AM
If your group/family is X miles away, you may find that the 40 meter antenna just isn't gonna cut it at a particular time of day/night, whereas 80 or 20 might just be perfect.  TNH is correct about that as well.

But - for me - those two bands are certainly doable!

Quote from: WA4STO on September 29, 2012, 11:31:12 AM
He brings up another point that will require some thought on your part -- probably today, or at least this weekend, as you're getting things set up.  At some point, you're going to need to decide on whether that 80 meter portion is resonant higher up, in the 75 meter part of the band, (say 3.900 mHz or thereabouts) , or lower down in the digital area, around 3.6 mHz.

Now that's a great idea - and I want it up in that digital area!

Quote from: WA4STO on September 29, 2012, 11:31:12 AM
In my case, I've got it set at 3.6 as that's where the digital networks are located.  But ... see ...  ya can't easily have it both ways.  My antenna is so NOT resonant on 3.900, that I would have to adjust (compress or separate) the 80 and 40 meter coils to get a decent match.

Thanks, Luck - and to compress or separate - do you need to run it through a tuner?

Quote from: WA4STO on September 29, 2012, 11:31:12 AM
In your case (here comes the planning part), you COULD have it both ways.  My strong guess is that the folks who made your fan dipole cut the 80 meter portion up on 3.900-ish.  So, to make it (the antenna) work down in "my" portion of the band, you could add some length to each side of the dipole, and connect the two pieces on each side by way of jumpers or even Anderson power pole connectors.

Wow - great site - which one, 30 amp? ALso, would this cause the SWR t climb at all?

http://www.andersonpower.com/products/singlepole-connectors.html
I think you've decided on allowing the fan dipole to be raised/lowered via rope and pulleys at the center conductor, which would make the whole process fairly simple.

Yes, I'm kind of excited to see how that works out - im told that I need to guy the mast at 28 feet - which is about 9 poles - adding 3 to 4 more poles would probably need some additional stability anyway...yeah, I'm looking forward to that!

http://www.andersonpower.com/products/singlepole-connectors.htmlFor now, if my guess is right, you'll be golden on the voice portion of the band.  Oh!  And that's where SSTV happens as well, strangely enough...

Almost like I knew what I was doing...except, I didn't! Got me to where I was going som much faster!!
Title: 80 vs 75, SSTV in the voice portions of the band
Post by: WA4STO on September 30, 2012, 10:49:13 AM
WT -- Stop with the STO - kudos, will ya?!  :)  The guys are getting sick of hearin' it!  Besides, if I was expert on everything, I'd not be either this old, or this fat.  And my vertical radials would be a work of art.

>>>Now that's a great idea - and I want it up in that digital area!

Careful!  Don't confuse the fact that SSTV is allowed in the Phone/SSB/voice areas of the bands with the "digital" areas.  They're not the same at all and you need to consider -- right now, today -- what portion of the band you want to be on.   Why?  Antenna length is the prime reason.

Methinks you will, at least for now, want to be on the voice/image portion.

The confusion about SSTV placement is due, in part, to the Part 97 regulations.

http://www.hurderconsulting.net/radiostuff/Hambands_color.pdf (http://www.hurderconsulting.net/radiostuff/Hambands_color.pdf)

Look at the 80 meter section -- particularly at all the "green" bars.  Note that the green bars represent "phone and image".

So even though SSTV is -- in recent years, anyway -- a 'digital' mode, it's allowed up in the voice portion of the band.  Go figure.  sure is easy to spot up there!

>>>Thanks, Luck - and to compress or separate - do you need to run it through a tuner?

To 'compress or separate', use your fingers.  Preferably not while transmitting!  See, these puppies (the coils) are large enough that you can do that:

(http://www.hurderconsulting.net/radiostuff/hf9vphoto.jpg)

Time to head out back and finish up the ground radial installation.  Photos to follow!  Of course...

73 de WA4STO




Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: gil on September 30, 2012, 11:00:53 AM
I like the look of those coils. Nice and big, low losses.

I tried to sway Tim to Morse code, even showed him my Rock-Mite... To no avail  ::) LOL.

Gil.
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: WA4STO on September 30, 2012, 11:43:37 AM
Yah, those coils are the biggest reason I opted for the Butternut.

I've had "closed coil" designs before.  They usually failed due to (expensive) moisture ingress.

Ditto for the plethora of HF Yagi-Uda directional beams; they  mostly  seem to have the "sealed" resonators.  No wonder, given the size of the cure!

73 de WA4STO
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: WA4STO on September 30, 2012, 12:12:53 PM
WT asks:  Thanks, Luck - and to compress or separate - do you need to run it through a tuner?

Oops, looks as though I ignored the latter part of that Q.

This particular design (see above) does not require a tuner to be resonant on all bands 80 - 6

However, it's happens that I *do* use one ( LDG auto-tuner) but only because i wear suspenders in addition to my belt.  Or is that the other way around?

(http://www.hurderconsulting.net/radiostuff/smallwa4sto.jpg)

You can see the LDG tuner sitting just below the IC-7000

It still doesn't help the antenna to be resonant on both the 75 and 80 meter frequencies, which is contrary to the design of the antenna.  For that, I gotta go tweak those big bad coils and even then, only one part of the band at once.

73 de WA4STO
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: White Tiger on September 30, 2012, 01:29:58 PM
Sorry Luck - just acknowledging the help!

...and, um...looking at my dipole antenna mast...and I can't seem to find any coils to tweak?  ;)

...actually - I think I get the fact that I'm supposed to use those connector pieces to add a bit more wire onto the existing leg - and remove it to bounce between 75/80...

...which means that 80m is definitely going into an inverted V!
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: WA4STO on September 30, 2012, 03:17:53 PM
Quote from: White Tiger on September 30, 2012, 01:29:58 PM
...and, um...looking at my dipole antenna mast...and I can't seem to find any coils to tweak?  ;)

...actually - I think I get the fact that I'm supposed to use those connector pieces to add a bit more wire onto the existing leg - and remove it to bounce between 75/80...

...which means that 80m is definitely going into an inverted V!


What?  No coils?  Surely you did something wrong in the whole process.  Hmmm...

Yah, I thought about your 100 feet between the trees situation; adding to the already-long 80 meter elements is definitely going to pose a problem.

If it t'were me, I'd leave it alone for now, banking on the assumption that they cut it for 75 meters.

No, the insertion of the PowerPole connectors won't cause the SWR to change.  However, the added length of wire to each end most definitely WILL, of course.  At least on the 75 meter part; it should go sky-hi (no pun intended) if you add several more feet (more on that in a bit).  But that's the goal of adding wire; to get the whole thing to resonate lower down in the band, which clearly DOES require more.

How much?  Lessee:

Wild-ass-guess here but let's say that the theoretical length of a dipole resonant at 3.947 mHz is:

492 / 3.747 = 124.7 feet (62 feet on each side of the insulator)

Now if we want it to resonate on, say, 3.620, we would get:

492 / 3.620 = 135.9

which would be 6.5 feet added on each side.  That's instructive!

73 de WA4STO
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: gil on September 30, 2012, 03:22:45 PM
Tim, that's the vertical antenna itself here that has the coils, not the mast. You shouldn't have any coils for a dipole, except if it was shortened, and then the coils would be on the radiating wires...

Gil.
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: White Tiger on September 30, 2012, 05:26:12 PM
You guys are killing me here...

Between STO & Gil - there's definitely a "rainman" effect on the antenna issue...

"...yeah, yeah...definitely need coils on radiating wires cut 139.5' to resonate on 3.620"

This is why I'm skeptical I can pass the Amateur Extra class exam....that is just for uber smart (Rainman-like) amateurs!!

Can you just give me a Mnemonic download (and you're going to have to be careful not to overload my limited storage capability)?

(http://nubeo.antena3.com/images/49202/21.jpg)
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: WA4STO on September 30, 2012, 05:34:01 PM
OK, here's a "binary" way.  One that I've suggested 4237 times before.  More or less.  Here goes:

Memorize the answer = ON

Memorize the answer = ON

Memorize ... oh ... you get the drift.

Here's the way I view your exam studying status:

1.  Technician = Done!

2.  General = Done!

3.  Extra = durned near done!

If you wait to take all three until you understand everything on the exams, you better be looking at a test date in 2015.

Not that YOU couldn't learn it; it's just that to get there from here, you gotta stop worrying about what puzzles you, cuz the exam session is like NOW!   Well, real soon now...

73 de WA4STO
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: gil on September 30, 2012, 05:37:48 PM
Well, it's simple really... If you want to shorten an antenna, you place a coil somewhere on the wire(s). Of course there is a bit of math involved there, as to where to place the coil, how many turns, what diameter, what type of core, and wire diameter.. Stuff I don't ever want to get into.. I usually browse the web until I find someone who has done the work for me and published it! Note that coils mean losses.. The bigger the wire diameter the better in that regard..

Tim, read the book I traded that hot chocolate for with you and just give it a shot, you never know.. I didn't think I would pass all three exams, honestly. Do a lot of practice exams on QRZ.com, that will help you memorize the most difficult answers. A lot of the stuff is common sense. The cool thing is, you also learn a lot of stuff and you'll be ahead for the next session.

Gil.
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: White Tiger on September 30, 2012, 06:03:18 PM
Quote from: WA4STO on September 30, 2012, 05:34:01 PM
Here's the way I view your exam studying status:

1.  Technician = Done!

2.  General = Done!

You're dead on...I'm scoring 85% to 91% based on an algorithym that pulls test samples from several aspects of the question pool (i.e., "weak areas", "unseen items" and "truly random")...so, yeah...I'm pretty confident, unless I get Mad Cow disease between now and next Saturday, these should not be a problem for me.

Actually, HamTestOnline (http://www.hamradiolicenseexam.com/login.htm) has me feeling like a rockstar...

Quote from: WA4STO on September 30, 2012, 05:34:01 PM
3.  Extra = durned near done!

...until I get to this^^^ portion - where I am still consistently scoring 40% to 50%...which as you know is well below "failure"!

Dunno - maybe it's the fact that there are 15 more questions - which decrease the odds of getting a question I've already memorized, substantially (and actually feels like "exponentially)...maybe it's the fact that some of the questions are simply rephrasings of the question pool from the General...or or I'm brain dead!?

Quote from: WA4STO on September 30, 2012, 05:34:01 PM
If you wait to take all three until you understand everything on the exams, you better be looking at a test date in 2015.

..that's true - and you never know about the gubmn't - they could change their criteria at any time...this is what is driving me to take the test, well that and Gil's admonishment that once you walk away from the test, you can become comfortable without ever upgrading your license to the next level...

Quote from: WA4STO on September 30, 2012, 05:34:01 PM
Not that YOU couldn't learn it; it's just that to get there from here, you gotta stop worrying about what puzzles you, cuz the exam session is like NOW!   Well, real soon now...

I know - my jonesin' on this subject (worrying about passing) is probably driving everyone crazy! ...but you're right - it's so close, there's only time to read & take tests!!
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: gil on September 30, 2012, 06:30:52 PM
The last few nights, I was going to sleep at 2-3am after hours of reading.. When I got to the exam session, it felt like I had forgotten most of it! The first two went well, but the last one, I thought I had failed. The thing is, I think that my reading helped me make a lot of educated guesses... The first key is to read the questions entirely, slowly and precisely. The second key is to not care about the results (gee, I sound like I'm teaching martial arts students) ;D If you don't get Extra, no big deal. Just make sure you DO go to the next session!

Gil.
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: Jonas Parker on October 01, 2012, 11:43:29 AM
I've been out of college for some 50 years."Extra" was a bear for me since it was a long time ago when I took college algebra and physics. I used the interactive course at www.hamtestonline.com and managed to pass the exam on the first try after about 3 months of studying. I hope this helps.
Title: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: White Tiger on October 01, 2012, 10:50:50 PM
That is the test site I am using - I'll post a review of how well I feelHamTestOnline (http://www.hamradiolicenseexam.com/try-it.htm) prepared me on Sunday...as my exam is on Saturday.

So far it seems like an excellent preparatory tool for the exams!
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: AE5J on October 10, 2012, 12:48:03 PM
Being an inveterate tinkerer who has put huge eyesore antenna-like contraptions in the air for a long time, let me direct you to a couple of antennas that really make the idea of remote (that is away from large pre-erected antennas) operations a lot easier. I use these when out in the RV.

The first is the Buddipole. I have a large assortment of their stuff and in short, it works. Surprising well. It also is so flexible you can learn a vast amount about antennas by playing with it. Here is a link:
http://www.buddipole.com/ (http://www.buddipole.com/)
This stuff is not cheap, but it is of amazing quality and performance for field work. there are some great videos of the Buddipole on youtube as well.

I have built fan dipoles for many years, but lately I discovered the end-fed antenna. Here is one of the best pre-built ones:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/QSO-KING-End-Fed-Antenna-All-HF-Bands-1-9-KW-PEP-HOA-Friendly-Works-A-/170836265100?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Antennas&hash=item27c6a2888c (http://www.ebay.com/itm/QSO-KING-End-Fed-Antenna-All-HF-Bands-1-9-KW-PEP-HOA-Friendly-Works-A-/170836265100?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Antennas&hash=item27c6a2888c)
This one is inexpensive, highly portable, and much easier to erect than a dipole, as it only requires one elevated support and it is fed from the end close to the ground.

You can read reviews on e-ham.net if you like such things.
73....Pete
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: Sunflower on October 10, 2012, 01:57:30 PM
Quote from: KC9TNH on September 29, 2012, 08:42:44 AM
Remember that NVIS is a technique, not a hardware solution. You're just utilizing a different take-off angle and gives you that near-range plume like a rising bran muffin.

Not sure I understand the bran muffin part. What is NVIS (navigating an antenna?).
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: Mitch on October 10, 2012, 02:27:13 PM
NVIS stands for near vertical incidence skywave.

That's a mouthful for sure, but explaining it may be worse.

Keep in mind that radio operators like to use the ionosphere to bounce signals off of to get greater range that's the "propagation" effect you keep hearing about.

When someone transmits a signal from an antenna typically they want to send (point) it toward the horizon so it skips better (at a lower angle- like skipping a rock on the pond) to go further.

If they want to use NVIS they set up the antenna and choose a frequency that will still bounce off the sky even if they shot it straight up. Like dropping a rock straight down on the pond and having it bounce back to your hand!

They then shoot that signal almost straight up, but when it comes back down the receiving area on the earth is much smaller because of that small angle it bounced.

If done properly the benefits are:
1. Antennas are somewhat easier to set up since they don't have to be high off the ground.
2. The received signals tends to be clearer because an NVIS antenna doesn't pick up as much regular noise since it is low to the ground (doesn't hear regular signals as well)).
3. It's much more forgiving for using lower power 100mW is sufficient in most cases.

Primary negative points are:
1. It's only for shorter range. (Since the signal rock is only skipping the pond once.)
2. You only get to play with other stations with an NVIS antenna. Regular antennas can still "hear" you but you may not hear them because your antenna isn't high enough to efficiently catch their signal.
3. If you chose the frequency too high it escapes into space and doesn't come back down!



P.S. I probably didn't answer the question. The "bran muffin" part... I haven't got a clue! ???
Sorry for explaining NVIS again in this thread.
Title: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: White Tiger on October 10, 2012, 03:38:37 PM
No worries, and yes I know that NVIS is more of a technique utilizing a dipole - but it does require a different antenna configuration of the dipole...so rather than taking the antenna down and reconfiguring it to be less than a 1/4 wave (or a little over 7'-8' whichever comes first) from the ground - I'd prefer just setting up two dipoles...

...I think...
Title: Re: 80 vs 75, SSTV in the voice portions of the band
Post by: Sunflower on October 13, 2012, 06:20:38 PM
Quote from: WA4STO on September 30, 2012, 10:49:13 AM


(http://www.hurderconsulting.net/radiostuff/hf9vphoto.jpg)

73 de WA4STO
Why coils? to keep the connection cooler? First time I ever saw coils. Do the coils shorten up would be too lenthy to handle otherwise? Are the coil SS or alunimum? Are the pads that connect between the two a form of insulation? Do the coils speed up your CW or just voice?

Did you make this yourself?

Thank you
Title: Re: 80 vs 75, SSTV in the voice portions of the band
Post by: WA4STO on October 13, 2012, 07:50:39 PM
Quote from: Sunflower on October 13, 2012, 06:20:38 PM

Why coils? to keep the connection cooler? First time I ever saw coils. Do the coils shorten up would be too lenthy to handle otherwise? Are the coil SS or alunimum? Are the pads that connect between the two a form of insulation? Do the coils speed up your CW or just voice?

Did you make this yourself?

Thank you

Last things first:  No, I didn't fabricate/make all these parts.  None of them, actually.  However, I did assemble it.  Since I'm such a mechanical DUNCE, it took me about four good days, or at least those (small) portions of a day when I'm feeling up to it, lol

An antenna needs to be a certain length to be resonant at the frequency you wish to operate.  And, as you've learned here and elsewhere, a resonant dipole antenna for the 80 meter amateur radio band is something on the order of 125 feet long!

This design of this antenna is a compromise.  I can't have an antenna that's 125 feet tall, cuz if it fell over in a storm, it would end up killing somebody (guess who, probably?) when it fell on the power lines.  So, to make the antenna shorter, you have to design into it some electrical properties such as inductance and capacitance.  In general, those big coils provide the inductance, while the little brown "pads" that you saw are actually capacitors.  Together, if designed correctly, the overall antenna APPEARS to be "longer" (in this case MUCH longer!) than it actually is, so that radio will be happy and will allow the flow of electrons out into the wild blue yonder without frying your radio. 

It may be that you've seen "coils" before and didn't realize it.  Here's a picture of a bunch of them, designed into an HF Yagi antenna:

(http://www.hurderconsulting.net/radiostuff/yagi.jpg)

There's a bunch of coils on that particular antenna.  You can't tell by this picture, but the coils are closed, encapsulated inside some material or another so that rain, moisture and bird doo-doo (just kidding, kinda) don't get into the coils.  Problem is, they do eventually leak, or rather, the moisture gets IN to them and they are expensive to replace.

The ones on my antenna are totally open so that moisture can have it's way (not) from day one. 

One other VERY nice feature of the open coil design is that you can adjust the frequency that the radio will best be able to squirt out those electrons.  When I first put mine together, I needed to go outside and gently pull the coil windings apart a little.  Worked great and that's part of why I love this antenna.  Love the price?  Not so much.

Here's another design that you have likely seen and not paid much attention to until now.  It's a CB antenna, the type of which is often found on the trunk of CBers' automobiles.  The big black thing?  You guessed it, a coil!

(http://www.hurderconsulting.net/radiostuff/wilsoncbant.jpg)

Neither coils nor capacitors relate to CW, voice (or digital modes, for that matter) speed in any meaningful way.  Once the antenna has become resonant at the frequency that you want to operate on, then -- no matter what mode you use --   you can transmit (and receive of course) much much better/further/stronger than when it wasn't tuned properly.

To answer your question about aluminum vs. stainless steel, I forget, but am quite certain that it surely must be aluminum.  Stainless would add SO much weight (a bad thing) and would be hard to stretch/compress to tune it.  Yah, must be al-loo-min-e-yum.

Hope this answers your questions.

73 de WA4STO
QTH: Wilber Nebraska




Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: Jonas Parker on October 15, 2012, 01:17:07 PM
And here's my GAP Titan DX vertical on a 40' steel pipe - no coils at all... :(
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: gil on October 15, 2012, 04:55:45 PM
I've heard a lot of good about this antenna, and even considered buying it. The problem is that it is everything but discreet... Maybe if I paint it green... Then, if I move, it's not easy to transport (how long is the box?).

Gil.
Title: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: White Tiger on October 15, 2012, 09:31:08 PM
How about the Carolina Windom?

My second attempt erecting my antenna to 32' was going pretty well - until the SWR test showed waaayyy too much - so while I was tweaking it (raised/lowered height of coax/antenna head and repositioning the legs of the inverted V for 80m and 15m) I got it down to 1:1.7...and while I was walking back to the antenna mast - I hear this sickening ccccrrrraaaaccckkkk!

Then the visual came into view...as the masthead bounced off the fence...

...so much for those cheap 4' military fiberglass poles...arrrggghhh!
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: gil on October 15, 2012, 10:06:05 PM
Geez! Glad I didn't buy them! I was going to...
They have aluminum ones...

Gil.
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: raybiker73 on October 15, 2012, 10:53:57 PM
Quote from: Jonas Parker on October 15, 2012, 01:17:07 PM
And here's my GAP Titan DX vertical on a 40' steel pipe - no coils at all... :(


This antenna has been on the top of my "Wow I Really Want One Of These" list for quite some time. Right now, I'm using a W5GI Mystery Antenna-style multiband dipole with a tuner. How do you like the Titan DX, if you don't mind me asking?
Title: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: White Tiger on October 16, 2012, 03:07:58 AM
Quote from: gil on October 15, 2012, 10:06:05 PM
Geez! Glad I didn't buy them! I was going to...
They have aluminum ones...

Gil.

Don't waste your money on the fiberglass poles, Gil. This was my 2nd attempt!

Do yourself a favor, save a few more bucs and buy the aluminum poles!
Title: Re: So, what happens AFTER we get the license?
Post by: Jonas Parker on October 16, 2012, 12:17:10 PM
Quote from: raybiker73 on October 15, 2012, 10:53:57 PM
Quote from: Jonas Parker on October 15, 2012, 01:17:07 PM
And here's my GAP Titan DX vertical on a 40' steel pipe - no coils at all... :(


This antenna has been on the top of my "Wow I Really Want One Of These" list for quite some time. Right now, I'm using a W5GI Mystery Antenna-style multiband dipole with a tuner. How do you like the Titan DX, if you don't mind me asking?

Love it. I've had it for two years with no problems whatever.