Radio Preppers

General Category => Technical Corner => Topic started by: White Tiger on June 01, 2013, 12:33:39 AM

Title: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: White Tiger on June 01, 2013, 12:33:39 AM
Just bought a 3 panel "kit" that includes a charge controller, a frame to link all of it together, and an assortment of plugs - all for $154 from Northern Tool (had a 30% off coupon)!!

I know it's a low-end model, I know it's inefficient, but it was so darn cheap...that it finally pushed me off the fence!

I haven't put it together yet - I wanted a power supply system before the start of the new hurricane season (which starts tomorrow). I have a funny feeling it's going to be an interesting season this year!

I'll update as soon as I put it together!

Here's a picture:
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: Geek on June 01, 2013, 06:25:33 AM
Looks interesting.  Please let us know how it performs.  I'd also like to know what you ue for batteries as this will be useless during an actual hurricane unless you have stored some power in advance.
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: KC9TNH on June 01, 2013, 07:35:30 AM
Concur, but a start nonetheless. At something under 4A though you can politely charge some decent-size batteries if the controller is reliable. Let us know how it works out.
:)
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: Frosty on June 01, 2013, 07:52:57 AM
Love Northern Tool, I can open their catalog to literally any page and find something I don't know how I've managed to live this long without owning. 

Nice kit WT.  Great price too.  A couple neighbors have the similar Harbor Freight model, Thunderbolt magnum I think.  One's had his for at least 5 years for his off-grid cottage, uses a single marine battery and it runs a few lights and a FM radio no problem - but only gets used 6-8 weekends a year.

45W of panels should provide something around 16 amp-hours (200 watt-hours) a day of power on average.   If you kept your daily usage at or below that, and assuming no other way to charge the batteries, then a battery bank with 160 AH total should keep the batts at 90% of charge or higher to get the max life out of them.   Just rough numbers.  Batts are always the weak link, and in a bank they're only as good as the worst one.  Deep cycles kept above 90% of charge should last for many years though.   Let us know how it goes, and how you plan to use it.
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: KC9TNH on June 01, 2013, 08:45:45 AM
I like Frosty's idea; rather than "oh, frack! I need to charge a battery" or "oh, frack! I need to run this toy" keeping a maintenance level on an existing bank would be a good use for this.
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: WA4STO on June 01, 2013, 11:30:15 AM
Quote from: White Tiger on June 01, 2013, 12:33:39 AM
Just bought a 3 panel "kit" that includes a charge controller,

I just yesterday managed to get my four blue-top Optimas down in "the hole".

I've been looking at the el-cheapo solar charging kits for years now, but I never seem to find any that have a 'fully-charged, now use the power for something additional' circuitry.

I bought a PCB and all the parts, some years ago, to build such a beastie, but never got around to buying the relay needed to switch the incoming wattage to, say, a 12 volt water heater element.  I just gotta do all that one of these days.

So me, I'm still on the fence, although I do have one leg ready to set down.  Damned thing is a picket fence, though.  Ouch!

73

Luck, WA4STO
Title: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: White Tiger on June 01, 2013, 12:04:08 PM
Quote from: Geek on June 01, 2013, 06:25:33 AM
Looks interesting.  Please let us know how it performs.  I'd also like to know what you ue for batteries as this will be useless during an actual hurricane unless you have stored some power in advance.

Hah, yes! I have been trying to find the right type of battery for my main concerns (small refrigerator, recharging stations for flashlights/lamps, and of course - radio communication).

The ol' TenTec Omni D manual says she likes a 12v 18Ah type battery...so I spent most of the morning trying to run down a couple of those puppies...not so easy to find!? I can order some from Amazon/eBay - but I really wanted to get my hands on 'em today (while the Frau is out showing houses).
Title: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: White Tiger on June 01, 2013, 12:25:30 PM
Quote from: Frosty on June 01, 2013, 07:52:57 AM
Love Northern Tool, I can open their catalog to literally any page and find something I don't know how I've managed to live this long without owning. 

Nice kit WT.  Great price too.  A couple neighbors have the similar Harbor Freight model, Thunderbolt magnum I think.  One's had his for at least 5 years for his off-grid cottage, uses a single marine battery and it runs a few lights and a FM radio no problem - but only gets used 6-8 weekends a year.

45W of panels should provide something around 16 amp-hours (200 watt-hours) a day of power on average.   If you kept your daily usage at or below that, and assuming no other way to charge the batteries, then a battery bank with 160 AH total should keep the batts at 90% of charge or higher to get the max life out of them.   Just rough numbers.  Batts are always the weak link, and in a bank they're only as good as the worst one.  Deep cycles kept above 90% of charge should last for many years though.   Let us know how it goes, and how you plan to use it.

Thanks Frosty, I have been pondering how many batteries would help me derive a minimal power bank...I was thinking about buying two at a time to run in series, and to not buy them too far apart...so as to match them properly...

The simple system will also allow me to buy/connect additional 45 watt kits - but Im not sure how many more I would need...and if I needed more than onemorekit it would probably behoove upgrading to more efficient panels & charge controller, etc.

This just started off to be an emergency power solution for the bare minimum requirements...

Then I remembered something about solar panels producing some loose RF "noise" ...and something about needing a "pure sine wave" device to overcome it...but Im not sure where that comes into play (remember, I'm the least technical guy any of you will ever know - for example: I typically just stare blankly at about half of what you say...then try to look up the key points, later...it could be that I've had a LOT of coffee already, and that's never good for my A.D.H.D. issues...could also be why the Frau is showing houses on a Saturday...), am I supposed to have an inverter that produces a pure sine wave, would that help my "el Cheapo Solar Systema" become a little "quieter"?

...or is that something I should'nt worry about if Im just running my radio, D, C, AA, AAA battery chargers, and some lights - off of battery power?

Other problems Im just now figuring out - where to install said panels, will there be a power loss associated with running the power lines across the house (panels on the roof in the backyard near the garage, shack in my office on the other side of the house, approx 40' away)?

See what I mean - new coupon iPhone app, time on my hands, wandering around Northern Tool...viola...instant karma...

....just not sure if I did something good or...baaad...!?

And Luck:

Quote from: WA4STO on June 01, 2013, 11:30:15 AM
I've been looking at the el-cheapo solar charging kits for years now, but I never seem to find any that have a 'fully-charged, now use the power for something additional' circuitry.

Hmmm... Now Im concerned, the charge controller has button attached to an LED meter/display that is supposed to show the charged level (13.8v max) of the battery ...the LED meter drops as a source item is plugged into the battery. Perhaps I've misunderstood your meaning?
Title: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: White Tiger on June 01, 2013, 12:39:36 PM
Here's the type of battery I was pondering:

Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: KC9TNH on June 01, 2013, 03:10:35 PM
Quote from: White Tiger on June 01, 2013, 12:39:36 PM
Here's the type of battery I was pondering:
Quality stuff; we use one of those throughout a season to run the scale at our weigh-ins.

Edited to ask: what does your Ten-Tec draw at less power?
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: WA4STO on June 01, 2013, 03:25:55 PM
Quote from: White Tiger on June 01, 2013, 12:25:30 PM
Quote from: Frosty on June 01, 2013, 07:52:57 AMDeep cycles kept above 90% of charge should last for many years though. 

Frosty's two magic words there are "Deep" and "cycle", Tim.  The one you show the picture of looks very much like a typical automotive, motorcycle or lawn mower battery, not the kind we're striving for here.

Deep cycle or deep discharge batteries are a completely different ilk. 

Just to bring more ants to the picnic, you'll quickly find that the true "Deep Discharge" batts are relatively  expensive.  Because of the intended use.  Consider  a single battery in a little fishing boat that has a little electric motor.  It might use a tiny amount of current  for a VERY long time, and by that time, it might have discharged the battery only a small amount.  Whereas the battery in your picture   is designed to start a motor for just a few seconds (hopefully) before it starts to again receive a massive jolt from the alternator. 

You can tell a great deal from the CCA (cold cranking amps).  Mine (I have four) are 900 CCA, but if the temp is up to 32 degs F, they are then rated at 1165 amps. 

More than the CCA, I can tell a lot from the weight of the fool things.  Mine are sixty lbs EACH.  The best ones I ever had (red Trojans) were something over a hundred pounds each.  Oof!

73

Luck, WA4STO
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: WA4STO on June 01, 2013, 03:33:11 PM
Quote from: White Tiger on June 01, 2013, 12:25:30 PM
Hmmm... Now Im concerned, the charge controller has button attached to an LED meter/display that is supposed to show the charged level (13.8v max) of the battery ...the LED meter drops as a source item is plugged into the battery. Perhaps I've misunderstood your meaning?

Whoops!  Didn't mean to worry ya.

The thing that has always bugged me about the 'usual' method of solar charging is that, once the batteries are topped off, why waste all the rest of ole Sol's oomph?  The cleverest solution is to have circuitry that flips a relay and starts using that extra wattage for sump'n else.

Back in the days when I called my F650 and the RV "home", I enjoyed 'boondocking', meaning no commercial power, and no running water.  Oh, and yah, no hot water either.  But once the relay kicks in and the charging juice is diverted to a 12 volt heating element in the little water heater, well every bit helps.

The 'secondary' could also be another battery.  Or  anything to keep that power in use.

73 de Luck, WA4STO
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: RadioRay on June 01, 2013, 09:40:48 PM
This is reminiscent of living aboard the sailboat.  Back then, I had two 65 Watts Kyocera panels and the house battery was made of 2 'golf cart' type , marine batteries in series.  That gave us just under 400 Amp hour capacity in the house circuit.  I found that by replacing all the incandescent lights with  'Marine Beam' LED lights, I always ha plenty of juice for the HF set (radio e-mail), lights , navigation lights & equipment . . .  It was always easier to reduce power consumption than to find a clear space for more panels.

I mounted the panels over the helm station so that they also served as a type of hard awning.


>de RadioRay ..._ ._
Title: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: White Tiger on June 01, 2013, 09:52:29 PM
Quote from: WA4STO on June 01, 2013, 03:25:55 PM
Frosty's two magic words there are "Deep" and "cycle", Tim.  The one you show the picture of looks very much like a typical automotive, motorcycle or lawn mower battery, not the kind we're striving for here.

Deep cycle or deep discharge batteries are a completely different ilk. 

Just to bring more ants to the picnic, you'll quickly find that the true "Deep Discharge" batts are relatively  expensive.  Because of the intended use.  Consider  a single battery in a little fishing boat that has a little electric motor.  It might use a tiny amount of current  for a VERY long time, and by that time, it might have discharged the battery only a small amount.  Whereas the battery in your picture   is designed to start a motor for just a few seconds (hopefully) before it starts to again receive a massive jolt from the alternator. 

You can tell a great deal from the CCA (cold cranking amps).  Mine (I have four) are 900 CCA, but if the temp is up to 32 degs F, they are then rated at 1165 amps. 

More than the CCA, I can tell a lot from the weight of the fool things.  Mine are sixty lbs EACH.  The best ones I ever had (red Trojans) were something over a hundred pounds each.  Oof!

73

Luck, WA4STO

Ok, but the Ten Tec manual stated that the battery to use is a 12v 18Ah...it didnt occur to me that I could/should use something other than what was specified...?

The one pictured is an AGM, and it's a lead acid cell, and it is listed as being a "deep cycle" type...

See, now's about the time that that "least techy" rears it's head...I am a complete battery noob...
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: Frosty on June 02, 2013, 09:04:31 AM
Quote from: White Tiger on June 01, 2013, 12:25:30 PM
am I supposed to have an inverter that produces a pure sine wave, would that help my "el Cheapo Solar Systema" become a little "quieter"?

I've only used modified sine wave inverters, the smaller (1000w or less) cheap truckstop ones were noisy - like a noticable hum from the speaker on some radios.  They also destroyed some cheap rechargable devices I tried to charge off them, some AC battery chargers do not like that modified sine wave.  Yeah I know, 12vdc -> AC inverter -> AC charger -> 9-12VDC device is hugely inefficient, but see below....  The Xantrex modifed sine wave I'm using now doesn't have these problems. 

Quote from: White Tiger on June 01, 2013, 12:25:30 PM
...or is that something I should'nt worry about if Im just running my radio, D, C, AA, AAA battery chargers, and some lights - off of battery power?

If you can live with only <= 12v devices and can keep them within a few feet of the batteries that's the most efficient, but for longer distances you almost have to go with an inverter.  The voltage drop on long 12v wire runs is the problem, unless you have some really big wire. 

Quote from: White Tiger on June 01, 2013, 12:25:30 PM
Other problems Im just now figuring out - where to install said panels, will there be a power loss associated with running the power lines across the house (panels on the roof in the backyard near the garage, shack in my office on the other side of the house, approx 40' away)?

40' is a fairly long way for 12v.  Using 10 AWG wire it'd be about .5v voltage drop across the wires in EACH direction - so 1v total drop (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge).  That's not good.  It might work as the panels usually put out 14-15v, but getting into the "iffy" territory I think.  You'll probably want larger wire.   To save some money, might get 80' of 4 wire (3+gnd) Romex type wire at the local hardware store, and use 40' each for the pos/neg runs.  Just twist all 4 wires together, at both ends, of each 40' run of Romex.  Four #12 AWG wires running in parallel this way is the equiv of about a single #6 wire, and would only be a .4v drop total over the 40' - and should be a lot cheaper than 80' of #6 wire.

The battery question is the tough one.  A 18AH battery isn't very big.  To keep it above 80% capacity for longer life, you'd only be able to draw 3.6 AH from it after the sun goes down - that's only 46 watt hours (12.8v X 3.6A).   Or said differently, a 15w CFL light bulb for 3 hours.   Since your panels should provide about 16AH a day, I'd say 80AH of batteries would be the minimum.   Then you can draw off the 16AH of juice your panels put in each day, and not drain the batt(s) below 80% charge.   

Quote from: White Tiger on June 01, 2013, 12:25:30 PM
See what I mean - new coupon iPhone app, time on my hands, wandering around Northern Tool...viola...instant karma...
....just not sure if I did something good or...baaad...!?

Yep, you can go broke trying to capture and store 'free' energy :)   Sure is nice when the power goes out though. 
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: Frosty on June 02, 2013, 09:23:41 AM
Quote from: WA4STO on June 01, 2013, 03:33:11 PM
The thing that has always bugged me about the 'usual' method of solar charging is that, once the batteries are topped off, why waste all the rest of ole Sol's oomph?  The cleverest solution is to have circuitry that flips a relay and starts using that extra wattage for sump'n else.

Back in the days when I called my F650 and the RV "home", I enjoyed 'boondocking', meaning no commercial power, and no running water.  Oh, and yah, no hot water either.  But once the relay kicks in and the charging juice is diverted to a 12 volt heating element in the little water heater, well every bit helps.

That was my plan when I sized my system, guessed that I'd have some juice to spare (in the summer anyway) and would use it for water heating.  I guessed wrong.  I use every amp from the panels - and then some more from the generator on back-to-back cloudy days.  For a backup system where the batteries are usually 100% charged all the time that's a great idea though.   The Xantrex C-series charge controllers can act as a load controller and shunt excess juice elsewhere, and are only about $50 if I recall. 
Title: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: White Tiger on June 02, 2013, 10:21:27 AM
Excellent information Frosty - excellent thread everyone - I appreciate the depth of the discussion!

After I logged off last night I bought a Pure Sine Wave inverter off of eBay. It's not a large one (300w/600w) but it was "only" $75.00 and I only plan to use it for the re-charging stations (specs for my i4 intellicharger are below - charges broad range of small batteries, and can do it simultaneously).

Im pretty sure the small PSW inverter will handle the battery charging station - but just in case I'm wrong - here are the specs for the i4:

Input voltage: AC 100~240V 50/60HZ or DC 12V
Input power: 10W
Output voltage: 4.2V ?1% / 1.48V ?1%
Output current: 375mA x 4 / 750mA x 2
Dimensions (L x W x H): 5.47" (139mm) x 3.78" (96mm) x 1.42" (36mm)
Weight: 5.50 oz / 156g (without batteries and power cord)
Compatible with:
Li-ion: 26650, 22650, 18650, 17670, 18490, 17500, 17335, 16340 (RCR123), 14500 (AA), 10440
Ni-MH / Ni-Cd: AA, AAA, C

So, if Im going to buy a battery - I can buy a couple of those blue tops and run my radio off of it - without a problem?

I'm beginning to see that old Omni D manual mentioned an 18Ah battery because at the time, the Omni D (sans the power supply) was considered a mobile device....I think I'm even beginning to remember a discussion with Luck regarding those REALLY deep cycle batteries...and him saying something about "blue/red/yellow top" batteries...it just didn't stick in my non-techy gray matter...

I thought picking up the 45w solar kit & discovering the batteries were only going to run me $35 each - was waaaayyy too easy!

Just means that I buy ONE blue top now....and one a little later.
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: WA4STO on June 02, 2013, 10:41:08 AM
Quote from: White Tiger on June 02, 2013, 10:21:27 AM

So, if Im going to buy a battery - I can buy a couple of those blue tops and run my radio off of it without a problem?


People (least the ones *I* know!) tend to recommend the stuff that they've already done as being "the best"

My suggestion of using the Optimas has merit but nowhere near as much merit as TTABS' red Trojans.

At my advanced age (and weight), I can no longer heft the 110 lb Trojans and I certainly can NOT get them down in 'the hole'.  So for me, the next best thing is the Optimas.

As for your question about 'no problem' with running the Omni, I would think you would want to experiment, over the long term, with the different modes and thus the different power levels that your Omni can accomplish.  For example, running scenarios that balance the power output vs the available battery power (keep your voltmeter on the batts) is always instructive. 

My own experience (in the 70s, I never had a normal power supply, always used an automotive battery cuz I didn't know any better) was that I NEVER had enough battery power.  Never.  And I never considered running my TenTec on much lower power.  Today, I've finally discovered error-corrected modes that allow me perfectly reliable data transfer with much lower power, and I'm content.

Yup, start out with one.  Watch the exact model number.  For example, the 'blue tops' have three different ratings, three different models.  Mine is the 900 CCA model which was $200 each but has now skyrocketed to $269 each.

If you get more than one, remember to connect them in parallel, not in series.  Positive to positive to positive and neg to neg to neg so that the ultimate result is still 12 volt.  Put 'em in series and your Omni will be seriously broken.  Note that TTABS has some of his batts in parallel.  Anybody here know why that is?

73

Luck, WA4STO
Title: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: White Tiger on June 02, 2013, 11:25:17 AM
Quote from: WA4STO on June 02, 2013, 10:41:08 AM
Quote from: White Tiger on June 02, 2013, 10:21:27 AM

So, if Im going to buy a battery - I can buy a couple of those blue tops and run my radio off of it without a problem?


People (least the ones *I* know!) tend to recommend the stuff that they've already done as being "the best"

My suggestion of using the Optimas has merit but nowhere near as much merit as TTABS' red Trojans.

At my advanced age (and weight), I can no longer heft the 110 lb Trojans and I certainly can NOT get them down in 'the hole'.  So for me, the next best thing is the Optimas.

As for your question about 'no problem' with running the Omni, I would think you would want to experiment, over the long term, with the different modes and thus the different power levels that your Omni can accomplish.  For example, running scenarios that balance the power output vs the available battery power (keep your voltmeter on the batts) is always instructive. 

My own experience (in the 70s, I never had a normal power supply, always used an automotive battery cuz I didn't know any better) was that I NEVER had enough battery power.  Never.  And I never considered running my TenTec on much lower power.  Today, I've finally discovered error-corrected modes that allow me perfectly reliable data transfer with much lower power, and I'm content.

Yup, start out with one.  Watch the exact model number.  For example, the 'blue tops' have three different ratings, three different models.  Mine is the 900 CCA model which was $200 each but has now skyrocketed to $269 each.

If you get more than one, remember to connect them in parallel, not in series.  Positive to positive to positive and neg to neg to neg so that the ultimate result is still 12 volt.  Put 'em in series and your Omni will be seriously broken.  Note that TTABS has some of his batts in parallel.  Anybody here know why that is?

73

Luck, WA4STO

You know Im constantly amazed at how patient you all are!

I am sure (make that positive) we have had a similar conversation regarding this - I guess the master (keeps) showing up when (each time) the student is ready....and the lessons never stop (which is a good thing, for me)!

As for the question regarding TTABS running some in parallel - and I realize I'm out of my depth here - but is this to run 24v "sets" for those sources that need a little more juice?
Title: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: White Tiger on June 02, 2013, 11:33:03 AM
By the way - because I don't see the picture here - Im guessing you're referring to another thread where TTAB's posted a picture?

... is that the thread showing his solar set-up?

Looks like I'm not the only one who struggles a bit with the ADHD issue! ;)
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: s2man on June 05, 2013, 07:40:27 AM
Quote from: WA4STO on June 01, 2013, 03:33:11 PM
The thing that has always bugged me about the 'usual' method of solar charging is that, once the batteries are topped off, why waste all the rest of ole Sol's oomph?  The cleverest solution is to have circuitry that flips a relay and starts using that extra wattage for sump'n else.

I wandered away for a few days analyze, spec and buy solar equipment, and what do you guys do?  Start a solar thread.  ;-)

The 'dump' or 'diversion' feature you desire is commonly found on charge controllers which are designed for wind power.  You can't just disconnect a 3-phase alternator like you can a PV panel.  So you either have to stop the turbine or send the power to another use.  They sell DC heating elements for water heaters. 

I would like this feature, too.  I would charge the batteries first, then, when they are full, send the power to a grid-tie inverter to sell the juice to the power company.  I did not find this feature on any of the low-amp charge controllers I've been investigating.  However, I did find most of the nicer, small controllers also control the load.  They can turn it on at night for lighting, or shut it off when the batteries are low, to protect them from over discharging.  I like that, in case someone forgets an leaves something turned on all night.
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: KK0G on June 05, 2013, 09:24:40 AM
Quote from: s2man on June 05, 2013, 07:40:27 AM
Quote from: WA4STO on June 01, 2013, 03:33:11 PM
The thing that has always bugged me about the 'usual' method of solar charging is that, once the batteries are topped off, why waste all the rest of ole Sol's oomph?  The cleverest solution is to have circuitry that flips a relay and starts using that extra wattage for sump'n else.

I wandered away for a few days analyze, spec and buy solar equipment, and what do you guys do?  Start a solar thread.  ;-)

The 'dump' or 'diversion' feature you desire is commonly found on charge controllers which are designed for wind power.  You can't just disconnect a 3-phase alternator like you can a PV panel.  So you either have to stop the turbine or send the power to another use.  They sell DC heating elements for water heaters. 

I would like this feature, too.  I would charge the batteries first, then, when they are full, send the power to a grid-tie inverter to sell the juice to the power company.  I did not find this feature on any of the low-amp charge controllers I've been investigating.  However, I did find most of the nicer, small controllers also control the load.  They can turn it on at night for lighting, or shut it off when the batteries are low, to protect them from over discharging.  I like that, in case someone forgets an leaves something turned on all night.


I'm not a solar energy expert by any means but my research has shown pretty much what you're saying also. If you have a solar system that produces enough excess power that a diverter setup is justified, then your system is probably not sized correctly. I do understand what Luck means though, it does seem like a waste.
Title: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: White Tiger on June 05, 2013, 05:58:41 PM
I am visiting a customer of mine tomorrow that began by manufacturing solar-thermal panels for water heaters (I think the most cost-effective means of the solar market) back in the '80's. He's since made the jump to also selling PV systems (although he buys PV panels from India & China).

I'm going to try to see what type of battery system he would suggest.

He's already offered me a non-installation price on PV panels & systems (and charge controller)...it was a bit more than I was willing to pay, to get started...but Im going to see if he has some batteries and if so, if we can come to some type of arrangement...
Title: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: White Tiger on June 05, 2013, 06:04:35 PM
Quote from: s2man on June 05, 2013, 07:40:27 AM
I wandered away for a few days analyze, spec and buy solar equipment, and what do you guys do?  Start a solar thread.  ;-)
If you want a look at a REAL ongoing solar project, take a look at the thread a poster called TTAB's is doing. He's done a LOT of work and it's a whole-house type project.
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: Frosty on June 06, 2013, 09:32:16 AM
TTAB's has a pretty setup.   Interested in what what you find out today.
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: WA4STO on June 06, 2013, 10:39:20 AM
Quote from: White Tiger on June 02, 2013, 11:33:03 AM
By the way - because I don't see the picture here - Im guessing you're referring to another thread where TTAB's posted a picture?



Yeck!  This is the THIRD time I've tried to post this. 

TTABS' thread on solar (and much much much more!) can be found here:

http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,288.0.html (http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,288.0.html)

And, Tim, (thanks for the message), zero nada.  I'm hoping he's squirreled away in his gorgeous property, enjoying life.

73

LH
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: s2man on June 09, 2013, 01:03:58 AM
I found TTABS' thread (pre WA4STO's handy link) and read the whole thing. Well laid out description and a very nice system.  I was a bit taken back that he was dismantling and stashing it, but then realized it is a prep, not a lifestyle.  That thread led me to battery1234.com.  I listen to all of the podcasts (i.5hrs each!) and got a much better understanding of emergency power vs an off-grid lifestyle.  Its a great listen if you are interested in emergency power for lights, charging batteries, and running radios and small electronic gadgets.  He goes into bigger, more costly and flexible systems, but for about $150 you'd be living like kings compared to the neighbors sitting there in the dark with their dead iphones (or sewage backing up in the basement, like my neighbor).  I'd be happy to summarize if anyone doesn't want to listen to six hours of podcasts.

Of course, now I have as many new questions as I have answered ones. But I keep moving on and learning.
Title: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: White Tiger on June 10, 2013, 02:25:43 AM
Has anyone heard from TTABB's? I wanted to follow up with him on the sat project for an update - but he doesn't seem to have posted for awhile?

Hope all is ok...but I REALLY hope he didn't get some code texted to him and he's gone dark!

Because it would mean that I was not invited to the bunker...and the sun is setting...
Title: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: White Tiger on June 10, 2013, 02:27:06 AM
Quote from: Frosty on June 06, 2013, 09:32:16 AM
TTAB's has a pretty setup.   Interested in what what you find out today.

Didn't get much time - the tropical storm cut my trip short. I'll give him a call.
Title: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: White Tiger on June 13, 2013, 11:34:20 AM
Just bought this Optima Yellow Top:

Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: Geek on June 13, 2013, 12:55:39 PM
Quote from: s2man on June 09, 2013, 01:03:58 AM
I found TTABS' thread (pre WA4STO's handy link) and read the whole thing. Well laid out description and a very nice system.  I was a bit taken back that he was dismantling and stashing it, but then realized it is a prep, not a lifestyle.  That thread led me to battery1234.com.  I listen to all of the podcasts (i.5hrs each!) and got a much better understanding of emergency power vs an off-grid lifestyle.  Its a great listen if you are interested in emergency power for lights, charging batteries, and running radios and small electronic gadgets.  He goes into bigger, more costly and flexible systems, but for about $150 you'd be living like kings compared to the neighbors sitting there in the dark with their dead iphones (or sewage backing up in the basement, like my neighbor).  I'd be happy to summarize if anyone doesn't want to listen to six hours of podcasts.

Of course, now I have as many new questions as I have answered ones. But I keep moving on and learning.

This level is what I am interested in.  I already have a natrual gas generator so a solar system would be a backup to a backup.

Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: s2man on June 14, 2013, 12:14:26 AM
I'll take that as a 'please summarize' :-)

He suggests ya go to Walmart and get their biggest deep cell battery and a smart, 3-stage charger by Schumacker (or from amazon).  Put them in the basement, hook 'em up and forget about them.  And get a clamp-to-battery cigar lighter outlet and a one-to-three-outlets adapter.

When power goes out, bring the battery to the kitchen, hook up your LED light, charge your comm's (just cell phone to most folks ;-) and charge your AA/AAA batteries.  Don't worry about draining the deep cycle too low; Its an emergency.  If the battery goes dead after a couple of days, take it out to the car and charge it with jumper cables.

That's his basic plan.  Like I said, he builds from there.  But a little imagination could expand that to cover your specific needs.

Geek, a small battery setup would probably tide you over nicely between generator runs to power the fridge/freezer and recharge the battery.  Really cut down on generator time.
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: Frosty on June 15, 2013, 07:22:22 AM
Quote from: White Tiger on June 13, 2013, 11:34:20 AM
Just bought this Optima Yellow Top:


Quote from: Geek on June 13, 2013, 12:55:39 PM
I already have a natrual gas generator so a solar system would be a backup to a backup.

Batteries, auxiliary generators, and solar systems - whoa, just had a Star Trek flashback.

Quote
KIRK: Scotty, ...what's left?
SCOTT (on intercom): Just the batteries, sir. I can have auxiliary power in a few minutes.
KIRK: We don't have a few minutes. ...Can you give me phaser power?
SCOTT (on intercom): A few shots, sir.
SPOCK: Not enough against their shields.

The Optima's get great reviews, just don't expect to get more than a couple phaser shots before recharging.
Title: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: White Tiger on June 15, 2013, 12:02:47 PM
Quote from: Frosty on June 15, 2013, 07:22:22 AMThe Optima's get great reviews, just don't expect to get more than a couple phaser shots before recharging.
I hear you - it's the most Ah for the money I had at the time - this is what is on my long range scanners:

Both are 232ah rated - but by the time I'm ready to get those...it will be time to either get serious about upgrading my solar panel system - or buy a NG generator...
Title: Re: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: WA4STO on June 15, 2013, 01:32:34 PM
Quote from: White Tiger on June 15, 2013, 12:02:47 PM
I hear you - it's the most Ah for the money I had at the time - this is what is on my long range scanners:


I see that the top one is an Interstate. 

But the bottom one, I can't quite tell; is that a Trojan?  Those puppies are well known. VERY well known.

And if so, is it a 6 volt or a 12 volt?

73

Luck, WA4STO
http://www.qrz.com/db/wa4sto (http://www.qrz.com/db/wa4sto)

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Title: El Cheapo 45 Watt Solar Kit Kicks Me Off The Fence!
Post by: White Tiger on June 15, 2013, 03:42:23 PM
Sorry, I left that out - they are both 6v - would wire them in series to get the benefit of the 12v, deep cycle, 232ah.