Assuming the loss of commercial infrastructure, with internet being first on the list, what are your expectations and 'wants' from the use of ham radio and radio in general?
Local Information: For me, the first use of radio is for information from farther than I can personally see. This begins with 2 meter radio for local information. However, my use of 2 meters is very limited because in this area, it's barely used at all.
National Information: The simplest form of mind control is to control what goes INTO the mind. By now, you've probably at least strongly suspected that The Mass Media is a very shallow and glitzy control mechanism for the generally dumbed-down public. As a people, we know more about "Desperate Housewives" and the NFL (the National Felons Legion)than we do about the noose that national and global politicians are cinching ever more tightly around our few remaining freedoms. We've been conditioned to think in sound bites and 'go with' whoever spliced together the best 5 - 10 second infomercial foisted upon us as news reporting, rather than requiring actual indepth reporting within an historical context. As an example: most of our population wanted to go to war against Iraq as 'payback for 9/11' even though Iraq had nothing to do with it. Now the public wants to turn Iran into a 'glass parking lot' because the TV says so, though most Americans can't find Iran on a map and don't know a thing about the Persians who have lived there for more than three thousand years.
This is where listening to shortwave radio comes in:
#1 : Every broadcaster has an agenda, but by being able to listen to many, entirely different points of view on the news about our nation and the world via the foreign media, you're much more likley to be able to decide what is REALLY happening by reading between the lines. I learn more about international and national crop failures, monetary policies and their effects from INTERNATIONAL broadcasters, than I ever do from the talking heads and 'press-titutes' of the domestic media. It also helps in gaining more of a world view to understand that we've been lied to on may occasions and on most topics. Listening to the same topics via Radio Japan, Red Line frm the Voice of Russia, Deutche Welle (Germany) and etc. makes for interesting 'information fusion sessions' with friends.
#2 : Being an old Cold Warrior, I never forget the use of shortwave radio to reach the millions who lived under Soviet occupation behind the Iron Curtain. Despite the power of the massive central State, millions listened to the outside world via UNTRACEABLE shortwave radio. The internet is a wonderful tool that I believe is as pivotal as the invention of the printing press,. However, the internet IS a government system at it's core and by it's very nature, designed to be a tracing & collating mechanism. Shortwave radio however, flows across borders and listeners can be very anon. This might prove to be very handy later.
#3 : HF ham radio is a great way to communicate across an entire region - like in State and also across a continent, even internationally. In talking with hams in the areas struck by post tropical cyclone Sandy, it was soon evident that the news media did NOT meantion many of the politically embarassing things which these real people on the ground were first hand witnesses to. The direct conversations about power, water and domestic services being disrupted, looters being coddled, while homeowners were identified then charged with 'crimes' because because of their being seen on TV footage of them bearing bats, bows and pipes for the better pat of a month, when entire sections of the city just a 1/4 mile away were lit-up like - welllll like BROADWAY, was a clear indication of many things - none of them good.
So - there's a start. Let's get a discussion going about what YOU want, need or aspire to in radio and maybe a little bit about how you plan to do it.
de RadioRay ..._ ._
Am tracking with you on many things, both background & way forward.
Deserves more than a quick post from work.
Ruminating.
8)
Quote from: RadioRay on December 10, 2012, 02:24:58 PM
Assuming the loss of commercial infrastructure, with internet being first on the list,...
de RadioRay ..._ ._
I abhor the standard MDMP (Military Decision Making Process) because it demands one make assumptions from the start, when there are likely not enough dots to connect, nor does one know whether one has gathered sufficient dots in the first place. I have a different method that seems to work for me so I'll ask:
1. Are you proposing that internet access would be the first thing to go (branch: did it go peacefully because something supporting it is down or screaming because of a conscious human act?)
OR
2. You're mentioning it in critical infrastructure because it's pretty much first on the list of amenities that the general populace feels they can't do without? (branch: If not, what else could go that would have more impact on radio operators specifically?)
Gotta run, still ruminating; in fact, double ruminating. Nice start Ray.
Informational needs, hmmm.
Quote from: KC9TNH on December 10, 2012, 07:03:19 PM
I abhor the standard MDMP (Military Decision Making Process) because it demands one make assumptions from the start, when there are likely not enough dots to connect, nor does one know whether one has gathered sufficient dots in the first place.
Well that's a big part of why I like to include ham radio in my planning processes.
It's not only the first "M" in MDMP that affects the population; it's also the various government relief (?) agencies and NGOs that don't have it right in the first place.
Have WHAT right? Well, for one thing, the use of ham radio to support their efforts. Who's the big winner? Local, State and Federal agencies, but not the population. It seems to be "US" vs "U.S."
Think of all the billions and billions spent to continue the government after SHTF. Think of the local Sheriff's Office "communications" vans. Million dollar State Motor homes too. Who do they communicate FOR? Themselves. Interoperability and all that. Lots of ham radios in those vehicles, frequently.
I find it refreshing that groups like this one rarely talk much about using their radios to support ARES, RACES and such. Rather, it appears that we tend to worry about ourselves, each other, our families first. Good.
73 de Luck, WA4STO
Wholeheartedly in agreement with Ray.
I have 2m capability, FM and SSB. There are repeaters around my location, but I would not expect them to stay on for long. Probably no longer than a week. People are not going to risk their lives to maintain a repeater. Still, 2m I believe is good to have for local chatter and warnings. Those radios are cheap and you can get a brand new 75W FM radio for less than $200; sold!
As far as HF and SW, I want to know what's going on... Maybe I'll want to report on the situation as well.
My take on equipment is: The simpler the better. Small radios, small batteries, small solar panel. SMALL! Complex technology goes first. For me that means no computer. Too much overhead, too big. I have a solar scientific calculator in a tin can, and that's it. Generators won't work without gas, and gas would run out really fast. So I won't bother with a generator at all.
I want to build a network of friends on the air, for morale boosting and information collecting. Just being able to ask "what have you heard?" is of great importance.
Ray and I have been successful in establishing daily contacts. Anybody else?
I suggest that we all connect to each other on the air. CW if possible, SSB if not. Even digital. Morse code can't be beat for simplicity and efficiency.
That's what I expect in a TEOTWAWKI situation. I expect to hear from you guys!
Gil.
I'm blessed that over time I've acquired an assortment of "stuff." Other than some things in the "it might be nice" category, I can go big all the way down to 1/2w on the 817. (In fact, if you're close enough I'll hand you a field-phone & tell you to march back home trailing some wire.) This is with various things, in various sizes & means of portability (or not), depending upon whether I need to shelter-in, relocate to a more tenable piece of ground, or bug-out completely, AMF. Those capabilities are situation-dependent.
It matters whether I'm staying, going, hanging-in to develop the situation... don't know. I can neither plan nor spend my way into every solution for every event. It is not feasible in my world where resources are finite when they run up against real-life, right now. So I have to evaluate against the most likely (and credible) threats to me & mine. They generally fall into 2 or 3 categories, mostly 2 but the third is in there because the consequences are huge.*
I already have multiple means of contacting a close handful of like-minded folks in the area, one of whom has a tenable piece of property should shelter-in not be workable. Those close-in, who I can get to if they need me, or vice versa, are who I care about FIRST in a tactical sense. It's an expanding circle. I can reach these folks via at least 2 other means not part of the "typical" infrastructure. We stay in contact; if not, someone's gonna reach out to the other to find out what's up. Just 'cause.
Information - reliable information - is what I need really to aid in decision-making. Lots of it. If I don't have noBS sources, I have to get a bunch of dots, the more the better, and connect them & see if they fit with ground truth. As Ray said, there are lots of source, although fewer each year due to reliance on the internet to the masses. But it's still out there. Spend some time listening to short-wave. In terms of natural events, learn what nets fire up that are at least worth listening to, even as background music. And, sorry, as much as I love CW and how well it plays, in a non-hostile non-MadMax situation you will need to be playing SSB if you want to be eliciting information from many of these. Besides, interacting with a net that has its ducks in a row is good practice.
Information, intel, whatever you want to call it, it drives our decisions. My scanner doesn't just have NOAA Wx and the PD & FD on it. I've got the guys running snowplows (local public works freqs are great sometimes), ER talking to the Med-Flight. It's not on all the time but it can be.
So I'm gonna suck information in like a vacuum cleaner. It's collect sufficient dots time.
(Later, it may be time to be able to transmit some truth outward. Especially if the dots we're collecting tell us that others we might need are getting a distorted picture of what's happening. Like a bunch of unruly people portrayed on the lame-stream media, really just trying to defend their property while NBPP in front of the polling place gets a pass.)
------------------------------------------------------------
* If you've seen the movie Field of Dreams you remember this conversation:
Shoeless Joe Jackson: The first two were high and tight, so where do you think the next one's gonna be?
Archie Graham: Well, either low and away, or in my ear.
Shoeless Joe Jackson: He's not gonna wanna load the bases, so look low and away.
Archie Graham: Right.
Shoeless Joe Jackson: But watch out for in your ear.
"in your ear" = These are plans and preparations where there has been widespread civil breakdown and the rule of law is long gone. Not part of my discussion here.
More on this later from me, but for right now.
1. Internet is too dangerous to not be tightly controlled - eventually. IMHO.
2. Internet is one of the first things to die in my local emergencies, but YMMV.
3. If it's all operating, then we probably do not have a 'communications emergency', just an emergency, so cellphones, Internet and etc. are all players.
4. Cellphones become unusable in even minor emergencies due to 'selective availability' which is a FEATURE that gives priority to those who are on 'the list' that is: politicians their concubines. My wife and I were without cell phone and even texting during last year's laughably weak Virginia earthquake. Everyone hit the phones and they are only designed for a low to moderate percentage of people on them at the same time.
5. Generally, there is nothing inherently bad about being independent in your comms, but it CAN be bad if you are not.
CW: Cw is the excellent baseline for all other communications. Outside of commercial communications systems like cellphones and etc. a QRP rig of a few Watts allows more bang for the buck than just about anything else going. It is your baseline/fall-back/JIC comms . . . If you desire more throughput, or more 'common' contact, then voice is fine, but you'll suffer in much larger equipment & power requirements for the ease of speaking rather than sending code under the same conditions. Even for data networks, I'd HIGHLY recommend a CW back-up. Gil & I have been tapping CW in our skeds at power levels from 14 Watts down to 200 milliWatts, using a non-optimal wire antenna on my end and a combination of ultra-lite/compact packable antennas and the classic "W.O.W. Antenna" (Wire Out Window) . We use CW to coordinate other testing, like 'Let's Try Voice' which always sends us scurrying back to the reliable CW. Look at the pics of Gil's Mantiz QRP rig, then look at the smallest voice rig of atleast ten times the power requirement. It CAN be done, but it's a drag.
>>> If you are bugging IN and have already set-up enough alt-power, then voice looks better, but I'd still use CW for passing printed nessage when there is no computer. If there was a NEED to use voice -like joining specific voice nets worth participating in- then it can be handy.
QQQ: What do you want to send/receive? Do you need a HIGH volume of traffic, or relibility and portability for SITREPS and 20-50 word text messages, or a nice 'rag-chew' about current events?
Well - time for a nip of Nassau Royale (possibly the LAST bottle in Virginia !!! >:( ) then off to Zzzz! I have a BIG DAY of stringing wire tomorrow!!
>de RadioRay ..._ ._
For those who don't want to learn Morse code, there is always this: http://k1el.tripod.com/K42_C.html (http://k1el.tripod.com/K42_C.html). When the going gets rough though, my brain can pull the code out of the noise much better. It's a neat little kit. I might get one if I ever go out in the boonies with buddies who don't know code. So if I'm the one mauled by the bear, they can call for help!
I took a new photo of the Mantiz, I'll attach it here. My review is here: http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,298.0.html (http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,298.0.html)
Since CW is the last resort, simplest and one of the most reliable solution, I just went with that.. If Ray and I had not known Morse and tried SSB, we would still be trying, be very frustrated and not successful. Had I beed calling for a real emergency, I would have been long dead. This is why HF voice requires carrying a whole lot more weight. I can see it with my K2, too big to take anywhere on foot, and I would have to get a battery one size over.. My K1, or a KX3 would be the biggest radio I'd be willing to carry, period.
If the power went out, for a long time, current-hungry Ham radios will not operate for very long. It will be too late then to learn Morse code. You won't have two months of leisure time to practice. My little 2.9Ah battery doesn't need a big solar panel. I can charge it during the day and be on the air every night for months, years if I buy spares. By then, I would have learned to build my own batteries. Relying on repeaters or any radio powered by your 120V house circuit is not a good option. Solar, wind, or any other constant sources of electricity are a must, even human-powered. You wouldn't need to be Lance Armstrong to power a QRP rig with a bicycle-mounted generator. You could even have a circuit with a capacitor that shocks the cyclist when the voltage drops too low.. ::)
I have been slacking off with the Radiopreppers net on Sundays, and I want to revive that... We'll start with CW, then half an hour later or so, SSB. I am sure it will become quickly apparent that SSB isn't going to cut it.
In my opinion, digital modes are great, but it is more of an "in-shack" option. Every little gizmo you add uses more current. First, those modes are high-duty-cycle. You must feed the interface, the computer, the screen, and of course the radio, which has to be an SSB model. It's a lot of stuff, lots of cables, big batteries. If you're bugging-in and have a giant gasoline tank and a generator, you might be operating for some time. When the gas runs out or goes bad, you're SK. Generators are noisy, they draw attention. You get the CW coder/decoder mentioned above, and you have a digital mode right there that plugs into your QRP radio! AND you can talk to people who don't use it as a digital mode. Maybe it's an "organic mode" :o
What I expect is that if things go bad, they can get really bad really fast. We're not talking about being two weeks out of electricity because of a storm here... It's important to think of it that way. My Systema instructor used to say: "You can go learn any decent martial art and be able to handle 95% of attackers. We train for the remaining 5%!" So, do we prepare for the 95% of situations, or the 5%? I am already prepared for the 95%. The rest, I am not.. Not yet anyway. For that, I believe you must go "lean." Only consider the simplest and most efficient gear and training. Drop anything that might not work or requires too much stuff. Reduce the number of variables to be able to control the situation.
All right, time for bed. Ya'll have a good night :)
Gil.
Quote from: gil on December 11, 2012, 02:05:11 AMWe're not talking about being two weeks out of electricity because of a storm here...
OK, so you have just set the parameters of the discussion. The collegial emphasis seems to be on bugging out at a high rate with continued movement due to high possibility of pursuit. Pocket CW being the ticket...
Nearby piece of property of high elevation is available for me. But I'm not runnin'. In terms of un-assing the area completely, it may be more like "stack mags, this is the Alamo." Someone who is a caregiver to a loved one may be in a similar situation or worse. Everyone has their personal tipping point. Hard to know yet, from what's described, when that may come into play.
But I'll be sending when I can, stay tuned. It could be sporty, so I might be busy.
Meanwhile, realistic training deltas for me to fill:
- continue building local human resources with multiple capabilities
- continue investigating alternative power sources for the Alamo.
- take a welding class (always wanted to do that)
Except for in the most extreme, I am not planning to be on the move. I am building my little patch of ground here on this rural peninsula into a water, food and comforts producing cornucopia a few steps at a time. While I USED TO bound through the mountains of the American West like the tiger, sleep in snow caves and live using little more than my knife , a coffee can and my fur-lined-jock-strap. Those days are gone for me. These days, my biggest ally is God and location - in that order.
Personally- rather than focus narrowly, hoping to develop an action plan for one specific scenario, it might serve us well to discuss TEOTWAWKI Radio in the various contextS which come to mind. For one, it might be a sudden avalanche of services, leading to the usual suspects taking to the streets and declining into a Mad Max situation, to something as mundane as the economic depression continuing to chip away, with the politicians using ever expanding wars to hold on to their positions of power. Or - maybe all this "CHANGE" will indeed turn the USA into a worker's paradise and we can all live in communal nirvana... //yeaaaaaaah riiiiiiight//
Thoughts?
>de RadioRay ..._ ._
Bugging out is the last thing I'd want to do. I wouldn't even know where to go. Away from the city probably, but then what? Yet, I want to consider the worst case scenario, which would be on foot with a backpack. That when that QRP stuff shines...
Gil.
Quote from: RadioRay on December 11, 2012, 09:40:17 AMPersonally- rather than focus narrowly, hoping to develop an action plan for one specific scenario, it might serve us well to discuss TEOTWAWKI Radio in the various contextS which come to mind.
Da. In that case, one kulak to another - and acknowledging that super-lightweight solar-renewable CW is a worthy on-the-run or even walkabout capability - back to the much larger middle ground.
I take it by "avalanche of services" you mean the big snowy-covered hillside of free-stuff just all fell into the crevasse. ;D
Information I need to foment decision making. Potential sources of that information are:
- Ray already specifically called out the (sadly diminishing) capability of shortwave broadcasts but they're still out there.
- All the area emergency channels, and their alternates.
EXAMPLE ALERT
The recent snowfall this weekend, which was heavier, icier, and stayed longer than forecast, created situations where EVERY LE person was running from one end of the county to the other with at least 4 locations pending on their console notebook of slide-ins, accidents, etc. Wrecker services in-city and out were completely committed. Getting this picture may help decide whether to wait, or grab the truck & snap-strap to yank a kid out of the ditch -OR- understand that the roving bad boys are down the street doing dangerous levels of vandalism and when minutes or seconds count, the peace officers are an hour away, ALL of them, providing pretty-light cover to wreckers.
END EXAMPLE ALERT
The above is not meant to steer anything specifically to weather-related issues. It's an example of how INFORMATION may inform our behavior.
So what are some other potential sources of information that may affect our decision-making; either radio-based leading to other actions, or other sources that lead to radio-centric actions?
Back to the gulag.
8)
Quote from: KC9TNH on December 11, 2012, 12:50:42 PM
EXAMPLE ALERT
yadda yadda
END EXAMPLE ALERT
This brings up the ever-interesting topic of 'broadcasting' on amateur radio. Broadcasting is, of course, not allowed by the Part 97 regulations.
However, there are 8 or so lives that the cat can be skinned for.
I've sent many a broadcast on 2 meter fm. Usually via RTTY although I'd sure like to know if PSK63 can be used.
The key to not running afoul of the regs is to always be transmitting within a QSO. So the above-mentioned broadcast would be modified like so:
KB0CMS de WA4STO
EXAMPLE ALERT
yadda yadda
END EXAMPLE ALERT
KB0CMS de WA4STO
End of story.
But wait, there's more.
Part of our preparations is often to do with getting the word out to local relatives, friends, and neighbors. That's why I use 2 meter FM. All the neighbor needs is an old Bearcat scanner and a soundcard in their PC. That would place the pre-shtf broadcasts in a very nice 'training' scenario:
KB0CMS de WA4STO
BEGIN ALERT
Common preparations for disaster scenarios include the ability to run your scanner and laptop via batteries. Are you prepared that way?
END ALERT
KB0CMS de WA4STO
If practiced regularly (say once a week at a known time, a known day, and a known mode) you end up discovering more (sometimes MANY more) like-minded folks.
73 de Luck, WA4STO
Broadcasting is a funny thing. I mean - if I TRY to send a bulletin to a Buddy and many others happen to know the freq/time to monitor it - is it 'broadcasting'?
(drive-by post)
Check Title 47 Par 97.1 as specifically relates to the roles of the amateur radio SERVICE. I think you'll find that one is on solid ground with, and has pretty good latitude, regarding matters of safety for reporting of any emergency conditions.
Of course, when TSHIF I don't think we'll be too worried about busting FCC regulations. We may be more worried about a totalitarian force confiscating their subjects' ability to communicate though.
Quote from: cockpitbob on December 11, 2012, 04:16:46 PM
Of course, when TSHIF I don't think we'll be too worried about busting FCC regulations. We may be more worried about a totalitarian force confiscating their subjects' ability to communicate though.
True, but I posted that relevant to the topic pulling back a bit from the leap to Mad Max, and also to clarify for those who actually might not know. It is worth noting that it's also the basis for the legitimacy of many NETS, which one might want to participate in BEFORE the event, as a training venue. YMMV.
My $.02 adjusted for the Drachma.
Agreed. During a true emergency situation is one thing.
But the equally important part is to practice. And for that, we can't claim "EMERGENCY".
Doing it, as in a QSO, obviates that particular difficulty, methinks.
73 de WA4STO
Playtime, even for the unlicensed.
http://www.short-wave.info/index.php
For the unlicensed, the is also of course CB.. Still a lot of experimentation possible with antennas and portable stations.
Gil.
First: what a great thread!
Second: from the newest, non-techy guy here - this exact topic is what led me to get my license. I suspect there are oodles of folks out there thinking the same thing I was thinking..."food: check, water: check, means to protect food & water: check, garden: check...hmmm...what if I need to know whats going on outside when the net goes down? ...doh, I need a radio..."
I had bought a CB/10m radio - thinking that it would cover all my needs (CB for local, 10m for distance). I wouldn't need a license, as I'd never be on the radio except in an emergency...that's when I happened upon someone on another forum who knew better. Fortunately it led to a friendship, a license, and a hobby (...with an agenda). As I studied & asked questIons, I began to develop my understanding of the capabilities of the bands - and how I could use them in my Prepps. Today, I do still have that 10 m rig...but more importantly, I have a HF rig to listen to the information from the world...I have a multi-mode 2m rig to help with local information dissemination.
I listen a lot, I have made some contacts...but mostly I listen to the nets on 40m and 80m. I hear how many have staked out a particular frequency and have honored a traditional net start time for so long, they hold a timeslot on that frequency (band health permitting). I reasoned that this is an excellent system. I have heard (and helped) relay information as folks drop out of earshot of others on the frequency due to band problems. I have begun to enjoy picking a weak signal out and trying to work them to get the pertinent information...this is what I wanted from amateur radio...by cracking open the door to information on our terms - radio is becoming (for me) a perfect inoculation against the virus of tyranny.
The format I am using is to listen twice as much as I hear - and hear what is be communicated and to find likeminded folks, sharing useful information, in a routine way, before the problems begin. It also helps develop my network of community. That way I will know where (what frequencies) to go to and how to facilitate getting and giving information to others just like me.
I would like to bolster the radiopreppers net - especially SSB - and I probably see the benefit in learning code...(I still just don't want to)!
My next step is to get this 2m rig operating - so Gil and I can start shrinking the distance between us on a regular basis! Then...on to kick-starting my local group into fulfilling their end of the bargain regarding comms...
Quote from: White Tiger on December 12, 2012, 01:23:46 AM...inoculation against the virus of tyranny.
Nicely said. A whole series of shots to get but this is one of them.
:)
Quote from: KC9TNH on December 12, 2012, 03:56:37 AM
Quote from: White Tiger on December 12, 2012, 01:23:46 AM...inoculation against the virus of tyranny.
Nicely said. A whole series of shots to get but this is one of them.
:)
Well, exactly guys. The spread of information (vs typical media and gummint disinformation) is something that we can do nicely. And frequently. And accurately. Good.
73 de Luck, WA4STO
I got up and started with radio coms not as a function of information gathering and dissemination from afar, but rather as a primary force for security. It will be very important that long range transmissions be used as information sources, but think about very close transmissions ... in or around your neighborhoods! Anyone with a CB or FRS/GMRS/MURS can coordinate activities that could impact you directly (and immediately) not to mention other bands that are privy to some. Also, my security plan will involve handhelds to coord activities locally.
I have a Uniden scanner that will stop the scan mode and relay any 'close call' hits in my immediate area. In an emergency situation, I'd be especially interested in these transmissions - so much so - that I'm considering playing around with a DF antennas (including mobile DF for triangulation).
The second goal would be to establish coms regionally between nearby communities for information dissemination and coordination. Finally - long range coms will be great for big picture stuff. Everyone will be interested in 'what's going on' in a national emergency so collecting and relaying that info locally will be huge should things become ... isolated.
I've beefed up my handheld inventory and scanning capabilities.
Quote from: ttabs on December 12, 2012, 10:15:52 AMwhole post
I happen to agree that, at the extreme local level (which is where tribe is) the lowest common denominator is what you start building on. It doesn't mean you don't try to get more versatile/capable. But battlefields of history are littered with the bodies of those who were waiting on "perfect" before executing
something. It ain't elegant but I can reach mine, without touching a wire or traditional grid-based thing (x2 different capabilities). They are pretty caveman-simple* & we're talking nearby but it works, and is testable regularly without a whole lot of effort. One has to start somewhere.
* if you're an actual caveman and got your sensibilities offended, this is the internet. Get over it.
Quote from: WA4STO on December 12, 2012, 10:06:22 AM
Quote from: KC9TNH on December 12, 2012, 03:56:37 AM
Quote from: White Tiger on December 12, 2012, 01:23:46 AM...inoculation against the virus of tyranny.
Nicely said. A whole series of shots to get but this is one of them.
:)
Well, exactly guys. The spread of information (vs typical media and gummint disinformation) is something that we can do nicely. And frequently. And accurately. Good.
73 de Luck, WA4STO
Luck, do you have any stories relating why someone with your background doesn't think ARES/RACES is a good thing for folks who are looking to develop their personal EMCOMM skills? Or is it more of an issue regarding the goals of each being so different?
Quote from: ttabs on December 12, 2012, 10:15:52 AM
I got up and started with radio coms not as a function of information gathering and dissemination from afar, but rather as a primary force for security. It will be very important that long range transmissions be used as information sources, but think about very close transmissions ... in or around your neighborhoods! Anyone with a CB or FRS/GMRS/MURS can coordinate activities that could impact you directly (and immediately) not to mention other bands that are privy to some. Also, my security plan will involve handhelds to coord activities locally.
I have a Uniden scanner that will stop the scan mode and relay any 'close call' hits in my immediate area. In an emergency situation, I'd be especially interested in these transmissions - so much so - that I'm considering playing around with a DF antennas (including mobile DF for triangulation).
The second goal would be to establish coms regionally between nearby communities for information dissemination and coordination. Finally - long range coms will be great for big picture stuff. Everyone will be interested in 'what's going on' in a national emergency so collecting and relaying that info locally will be huge should things become ... isolated.
I've beefed up my handheld inventory and scanning capabilities.
Good point - maybe my "gifts" this year for my group will be 2m Baofeng UV-5R's - just to get them refocused on their commitments and prepps?
Quote from: White Tiger on December 12, 2012, 11:54:38 AM
Or is it more of an issue regarding the goals of each being so different?
Oh! I did NOT mean to indicate that EMCOMM preparation wasn't of value. It most certainly is.
It's the goals that matter to the majority of preppers, methinks.
My goal, maybe and maybe not shared by other preppers, is to be able to communicate the messages that local folks here would want to send post-shtf. And to provide bulletins of information. To my mind, that requires practice. The radiograms are a fabulous way to start that practice.
There's a huge difference between becoming EMCOMM capable and developing the means/paths toward accurate text gozintas and gozoutas from the local area to the outside world. personally, I have a fair amount of disaster preparedness (food, batteries, radios, etc) well in hand, and I'm just now REdiscovering all the networks that our fellow radio amateurs have made available for us to use. Good.
73 de Luck, WA4STO
Quote from: White Tiger on December 12, 2012, 11:56:43 AMGood point - maybe my "gifts" this year for my group will be 2m Baofeng UV-5R's - just to get them refocused on their commitments and prepps?
If that's in your wherewithal to do that it's not a bad idea at all. You can field a workable "system" for $1,600,000,000 less than Uncle Sam and faster.
Caution: You will by default become the 'guru' so get the programming/cloning cable(s) too, whatever that h/t uses, so you can wargame FIRST what to cram into them (more is mo' better the first time if it's thought out), and then clone with the appropriate piece of Commander software.
Remember though it's less about the hardware than what's between your ears & fulfilling the needs of you & your tribe.
Nice start.
"Remember though it's less about the hardware than
what's between your ears & fulfilling the needs of you & your tribe."
AB-SO-LOOT-LEE korrekt-o-mundo !
This is the #1 reason for getting the ham license. It is so that those who want to prepare have the opportunity to LEARN, to DO and eventually to "OWN THE SKILLS" for competency in radio communication, whether tactical (around the neighborhood), Area (in State) and long range (continental and more). The ham ticket provides am excellent path toward leanring that DOING this and more - quite legally. The biggest flaw that I see is the 'I'll just buy the radio and when TSHTF I'll just talk." Three words: "No You Won't" (four words, if you count the expanded contraction.) The example: is like me owning a fine U.S. Army kit of field surgical instruments and learning while I go - in the field - extracting your appendix. (Gee - I wonder which one of the wiggly things IS his appendix?) Quit squirming and let me look around in here . . . :o .... Not the best way to learn - eh?
Time for me to go split some wood and wire in an electrical socket next to the wood stove.
73 de RadioRay ..._ ._
Getting a Ham license is certainly a must. $15 for ten years, one would be unwise not to get it. The tech exam is EXTREMELY EASY. It gives you CW on 40 and 80m as well! $15 license + $60 radio + $50 paddles, and you're on the air transcontinental for $125! CB is great, and also something I have, but the band isn't open that often. A 2m handheld beats an FRS radio any day.
About Morse code... Imagine the SHTF, and you're on your HF radio trying to find anyone. You can't hear anybody because the band isn't quite open or few hams are still operating (EMP), but you hear a faint CW signal, quite readable. You have no idea what the guy is saying... Head-banging frustration... It would probably be me on the other end :o
If I owned land and a house, I would also look into field telephones.. Wired from the house to the perimeter.. No point broadcasting when you don't have to.
The main thing a radio operator must learn, Ham or CB, is about antennas, radiation patterns, band characteristics and SWR. Not that much, but indeed, when TSHTF, if you haven't thought about it, you're toast. There won't be any Internet for you to Google it.
By the way, I am selling my Elecraft K2 to buy a KX3.. It is more portable, 160 to 6m, and includes a PSK31/RTTY coder/decoder. You send with the Morse paddle! There is a 2m module in the works too.
Have a great day,
Gil.
Our plan is locally focused, never saw much need to expand it given our circumstances. We're using most pieces of our TEOTWAWKI radio plan on a daily basis already. We monitor MURS motion sensors at the driveway/gate, guest house, and in the outbuildings, all from our shack in the kitchen, 24X7. No surprise visitors allowed, now or later. We get false alarms sometimes, and if they're from a sensor inside a building we respond with firearms. Thankfully nothing but false alarms so far, but we're getting some practice responding anyway.
Our scanner ("close call" capability achieved by removing the duck, what are you scanning with ttabs?) sometimes gets turned on during holiday weekends or during severe weather, for practice listening. Each vehicle has a HT, left on constantly. The primary BOV has a mobile, and HT as a backup. Another HT hangs in the garage, charging, to take when leaving on foot or other. Another HT in the BOB, with a solar charger. A laminated index card with each radio has our comm plan - What channel, what time, and some simple codes. The PTT buttons on all of them are usually dusty, except for an occasional "don't forget to pick up milk" or "when will you be home?" message that's about the only time we key up. And we have never, ever, kerchunked repeaters for testing range if needed in an emergency.
For our mostly part-time neighbors we have a few FRS radios to pass out. Beyond that, a CB (4w, swear to dog) with a whip at 25' and a couple shortwave radios is about it.
We're very rural if that wasn't obvious. We basically run a BOL Hotel for family and friends (none of which are hams), assuming they ever made it here. Either way, our goal is to secure our area and wait it out if the SHTF. Besides am/fm/sw to lighten the mood or get some news reports, long distance for us is two counties over. Guess I like being clandestine for now. I can always announce myself if need be, but once done it's near impossible to undo so I'll wait until I have no other choice. YMMV, of course.
Quote from: Frosty on December 12, 2012, 07:56:11 PMA laminated index card with each radio has our comm plan - What channel, what time, and some simple codes.
Word.
Quote from: KC9TNH on December 12, 2012, 08:32:45 PM
Quote from: Frosty on December 12, 2012, 07:56:11 PMA laminated index card with each radio has our comm plan - What channel, what time, and some simple codes.
Word.
Can you post a copy of what one of your radio comm cards looks like?
Quote from: White Tiger on December 12, 2012, 11:32:03 PM
Quote from: Frosty on December 12, 2012, 07:56:11 PMA laminated index card with each radio has our comm plan - What channel, what time, and some simple codes.
Can you post a copy of what one of your radio comm cards looks like?
Did you mean a
sample format or description, using
completely bogus values?
(I wouldn't put a working CEOI on the internet either.)
Quote from: KC9TNH on December 13, 2012, 07:47:28 PM
Quote from: White Tiger on December 12, 2012, 11:32:03 PM
Quote from: Frosty on December 12, 2012, 07:56:11 PMA laminated index card with each radio has our comm plan - What channel, what time, and some simple codes.
Can you post a copy of what one of your radio comm cards looks like?
Did you mean a sample format or description, using completely bogus values?(I wouldn't put a working CEOI on the internet either.)
Absolutely, I wouldn't ask you to compromise your OPSEC!
Ain't much, or anything fancy. I took about 30 pics of the thing with my cheap POS cam and can't get the text very clear, maybe that's a good thing tho.
Quote from: Frosty on December 14, 2012, 08:59:51 AM
Ain't much, or anything fancy. I took about 30 pics of the thing with my cheap POS cam and can't get the text very clear, maybe that's a good thing tho.
Nice - thanks for the pic = 1K words.
White Tiger, I can't answer for Frosty, but the concept which he's taken to implementation I see as this:
When 'x' occurs and the rules change (forever or some short duration) gear - especially on-the-shelf stuff - needs to have clear procedures bundled with it for the human operator. This is what keeps everyone on the same page. The reasons for periodic/scheduled frequency changes on a given system can be multiple. Especially in the case of HF, certain bands just have more likelihood of encountering good propagation. It could be also that a freq at one time is free and hugely busy otherwise some other time. For other comms, FRS, local VHF, whatever, it may simply be the case of bouncing around for security purposes.
Brevity codes can use a word or two to implement or advise everyone on some pre-determined AND UNDERSTOOD thing or definition that triggers some action (collapse back to a location, a roadblock in place, go get lunch & return to your day-job...). They also simply keep stuff off the air you don't want on. This is something that needs to be highly personalized, and as simple as possible. It also needs to be well thought out; might not be a 1 cup of coffee effort because there are potentially alot of moving pieces if done right - and if you're not doin' it right specific to your needs, why do it? But simple is better, small & durable even mo' better - in some cases you're handing a radio to someone with little if any skills, and the simplest set of operating parameters you can to help insure their success (and yours).
It's your blank sheet of paper (or laminated 3x5 card) - your requirement to develop. This is part of the non-hardware stuff between the ears. The mental exercise may also illuminate other things that will need your attention.
8)
Frosty - I'm also using the MURS motion sensors radios and have been 'testing' them for about two years. Remarkably they run for about 6 mos on 6 AA bats. I have two in use (and 10 stored as backups). Of the two, I've had to twice send them in for repairs - actually they just replace the innards.
My opinion - they work well but you'll need plenty of back-ups for a long term deployment. I'm going to start using Eneloop rechargeable AA bats next to evaluate their ability to run the sensors.
Also I use two of the MURS base units that are kept on 24/7 with no issues. They work great and we use them as an intercom between two buildings.
I purchased the PX-777 radios and programed them to the MURS sensor freqs. Now a LP/OP or patrol will be notified if a sensor trips. Just purchased the new PX-888's and really like their added capability thus far. My opinion - the MURS Sensors are a big force multiplier! They can be programed to send a verbal alert in one of 4 'zones' through IR sensing. You can put multiple sensors in a single 'zone' so if someone (or something) passes through, you'll know about it.
I do not own any of the probe sensors at this time but am considering getting a few as well. Reports are they work well too.
You can check out the MURS Alert Transmitters at murs-radio.com and click on the security tab on top.
As for Scanners, I'm using the Uniden BCD996XT. Haven't had time to figure that thing out yet but the 'Close Call' feature works really well. I'm also evaluating their 'Nascar Scanner' as a portable scanner may have an important role to play. It too has the 'Close Call' feature.
For those interested - the 'Close Call' feature when selected will interrupt the scanning cycle and play nearby signals that are emitted (including cordless telephones)
BTW - the instruction manuals for these things are very very poorly written and confusing. The company also has in my opinion poor resources and customer service. There are websites and forums to help you muddle through the complexities.
Exactly KC9TNH. Our plan here isn't intended for a real, honest-to-God, SHTF, "the Mayans were right!" type situation either. I've tried writing something out for that, but it needs a lot of work and keeps getting too complicated. This one is just for routine stuff, since cell reception is spotty around here. The two blacked out code words at the top ("no problem" / "problem") work well when reception is poor, since it conveys a lot with a single word that wont be mistaken. Hence the "say often", if you can read that part in the pic. We have a duress word too that isn't listed on the card.
Our group is small, there's no confusion as to who we're talking to, so we set callsigns for the station instead of the caller. I'm X at home, and Y on the road. We'll add a numeral to the callsign to designate another bit of information sometimes. I like this since it conveys additional info just based on the callsign the person uses.
The "location" codes are rarely used to be honest, and we stay on a home channel all the time now. The "this channel at this time" info is only in an emergency where we couldn't make contact, got stranded in a snowstorm, near dead battery, stuff like that.
and Frosty . . .
What you are doing today, you are more than likely able to do tomorrow. However, what we cannot do today, have little or no chance of 'magically' being able to use tomorrow - post TSHTF.
Well done.
>de RadioRay ..._ ._
Comments keyed to Frosty's fine responses.
Quote from: Frosty on December 14, 2012, 01:57:16 PM
Our plan here isn't intended for a real, honest-to-God, SHTF, "the Mayans were right!" type situation either. .......
No problem here; RadioRay is gonna work the N0D special event station and try to get a Worked All Survivors certificate. Daughter is inbound for holidays from Ft Gordon, so if plane doesn't make it I'll realize I'd better get a mind-meld with Ray.
We have a duress word too that isn't listed on the card.
I was gonna mention that too but figured "small chunks" better; even the original Wolverines weren't clued in to that but it's a good thing to establish, and should be something known to all but easily used in transmission by the person being coerced.
Our group is small, there's no confusion as to who we're talking to, so we set callsigns for the station instead of the caller. I'm X at home, and Y on the road. We'll add a numeral to the callsign to designate another bit of information sometimes. I like this since it conveys additional info just based on the callsign the person uses.
Also a good idea, works same as in the military where such concepts have worked for a long time. I like the way you're not making the callsigns any longer than needed; not like you're running a line platoon battle drill. Simple = repeatable = good = (maybe) you're ahead of the others' decision loop. Good stuff.
Eerily similar ttabs.... Tell Rob at murs-radio.com I said hi... 4 MATs deployed and 3 in storage here. Bought some PX-777's from him too, haven't tried the 888's - thinking of trying the Baofengs. The px-777's aren't bad, but the batts /charger are terrible imo. Fry the batts if left charging too long. Even the car adapter is problematic, have to pull the batt to install it, and I had to put cable ties on both radios to snug up the power connection so they work reliably. I bought one of the 5-channel MURS type accepted radios too, it's a diehard, and no problem leaving it charging all the time. Great for handing out to the kids since they can't get in any trouble with it. Uses rechargable AA batts too.
Uniden fan here as well, Sportcat is all at this time but in the market for a trunktracker.
Nice you meet you, but stay out of my paranoid psychosis in the future. ;D
This has been a very good thread so far. We have a pretty good mix of equip, bands & modes, and roles. Even some insight into off-the-shelf stuff to hand to the uninitiated (including simple procedural instructions), we even have perimeter defense and a no-kidding 4w CB.
These things (not all inclusive) are part of a large ala carte menu to meet various needs, as varied as those who use them. I'll have to ruminate on some of this & synthesize, but this thread was/is a good idea.
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Specific question for Frosty/ttabs: Not knowing where you live, do you have any info on how your MURS sensors perform when subjected to some seriously cold ambient temps? Thanks.
Nap time, but ciity part of Christmas shopping done and escaped ok. (There are some dangerous, frenetic no-drivin' mothers out there - wow.)
EDIT: Oh, yeah. As we come up on 2359Z 15 December 2012, not that it means much to those who continue to work so hard to eviscerate them, today is Bill of Rights Day - 15 December 1791. And a long way from local township "Committees of Safety" of 1774...
hat tip to some folks who took a helluva a chance.
Quote from: KC9TNH on December 15, 2012, 04:27:32 PM
Specific question for Frosty/ttabs: Not knowing where you live, do you have any info on how your MURS sensors perform when subjected to some seriously cold ambient temps?
Canada border state that begins with a M here. The ones I have inside buildings have never failed, even down to minus degrees F. The outdoor ones are more impacted by humidity/dampness than by temperature in my experience. After a rain or in fog there aren't 100%. If they fail, its about a 50/50 chance they might send a broken message or a series of clicks, or nothing at all. Usually that one failure dries it up enough that it will work on subsequent alarms. Hope that made sense... As an example, after a decent rain it might not work properly as I walk past it the first time, but walk past it again 5 minutes later and it does. Of three I've used outside, all act this way. I found that cleaning the battery contacts with a piece of sandpaper on every battery change helps avoid it.