Needs a CO2 powered antenna launcher  ;D

Quote from: Geek on February 20, 2013, 09:44:04 AM
Programming sounds like a necessity to use repeaters.  Given the fact they may disappear in a disaster, it sounds like the real trick may be to select frequencies for family contact that will avoid repeaters if they are operating.

Exactly.
And if you have a bugout plan that involves radios you had better have a copy of the maual, or at least the programming section, packed in a ziplock bag.

Quote from: Geek on February 20, 2013, 08:34:52 AM
So on my soon to be acquired 2m radio, if I am tuned to the repeater is there another control for the PL tone?

Typically you enter a text name for the repeater, the frequency and the tone.

By far the best thing to do with an HT is to get the programming cable and software.  Often the programming software can be found as free-ware.  As one guy put it, an HT is a computer with a 2" monitor and 16 keys on the keyboard.  They can be really tough to program manually.  Programming them with the computer is easy.

To work a repeater there are really 3 things that need to be set, but 1 is usually automatically set:  Frequency, offset direction and PL tone.  When you transmit to a 2M repeater it will retransmit your signal on a frequency 600KHz higher or lower, depending.  Higher is a + offset and lower is a - offset.  Wheather the offset is positive or negative depends on the frequency and is standardized so almost all radios just know if you are in repeater mode (as opposed to simplex) it will automatically set the offset amount and direction.  So, all you have to do is set the repeater's frequency and PL tone.

Again, get the software.  On my HT (Yaesu FT-60), I can have up to 10 pages (banks) in memory.  I have bank-1 full of local 2M repeaters.  Bank-2 has local 70cm repeaters.  Bank-3 is repeaters down near Boston for when I travel down there.  I have a bank for listening to local police and fire frequencies (ours haven't gone secure trunking digital yet).  Etc.  You just can't do that much programming without using a computer.

It's winter and the Gloucester, MA ham club is doing its annual Morse class.  One guy has been doing it for about 20 years.  To gauge progress and encourage people he gives the standard 5, 13 and 20wpm tests from old ARRL tapes and gives a certificate for 5wpm, a t-shirt for 13 and a sweatshirt for 20wpm.  Last weekend I passed the 13wpm and missed the 20wpm test by 1 question.  You can pass by either having 1 minute of perfect copy in the 5 minute tape, or get 7 of 10 questions right.  My concentration kept dropping so I didn't even get 1 minute of perfect copy at 13 much less 20.  The next class is in 2 weeks and starting this weekend I'm going to cram for the 20.

The certificates and logos on the shirts are a bit pretentious since they call Morse operators "the elite of ham radio".  Still, he has a point.  It's something you have to earn.  A rich guy can't just spend money and do 13wpm.  Even if you are super smart you can't just study for a couple weeks and do it.  It really is something you earn.

Gil, thanks for the explanation.

I have a CB gathering dust, but I'm keeping for reasons stated above.  I think an emcomm kit should have some of everything (ham, CB, FRS/GMRS, smoke signal blanket).  The more you have covered, the more comm options you have when the SHTF.  Only about 1 person in 400 is a licensed ham in the USA.  Most people have FRS/GMRS radios and I bet a lot still have a CB in a box in the basement.

Gil, I have very little experience with AM vs SSB in CB radios.  Can you educate me a bit?
-- If you are on SSB and the other guy has using a plain AM CB, how will he receive you vs. him having an SSB CB? 
-- If the other guy is Tx-ing AM and you are receiving SSB, don't you loose half his signal?
-- How do you choose between USB and LSB if the other guy is AM.  I'm guessing it doesn't matter.

Repeaters are owned by clubs and private individuals.  I'm not aware of any standards or requirements for backup power, so I think it all depends on the owner.  Some repeaters are used by the local emergency communications  or weather spotter (Skywarn) groups.  I would guess those repeaters are more likely to have backup power, but not guaranteed.

The larger clubs that own repeaters have web sites that may describe (brag about) their repeaters.

Clocks and watches.

Quote from: White Tiger on February 07, 2013, 06:58:06 PM- could my Icom 271A work in that role?

That Icom can't be a cross-band repeater since it is only 2M.  You need a dual-band rig (2M & 70cm) with seperate antenna connectors for each band.  I have a lot to learn about this.  Here's an article on the subject I just found.

Ray's idea of a poor man's repeater is interesting.  I've never heard of that trick being done.  If there's an off-the-shelf or kit solution, that would be a super cheap way to go.

Quote from: White Tiger on February 07, 2013, 06:06:39 PM
Very similar to our plans - group of 4 local families 30 miles apart - I got my General and will have access to HF & pass comms/bulletins to them via 2mVHF. Everyone else will have Tech license.

30 miles?  A little too far for reliable VHF simplex.  You might consider putting a repeater in the most centrally located house.  That way everyone could easily get by with an HT and maybe a slim-jim in the attic.  That house would need back-up power, but if they are preppers they probably already have that.

Maybe just a mobile radio that has cross-band repeater capability.  That would be much cheaper than a real repeater and you wouldn't need to go through all the FCC approval, and bad guys wouldn't find it in the repeater data base.   

Quote from: Geek on February 05, 2013, 09:04:14 PM
What about a short wave handheld?

Sadly, they pretty much don't exist.  Among other things, most SSB happens on the SW bands which require really long antennas for effeciency.

One note.  You don't even need a radio to listen.  There are SW radios on the web you can listen to.  Go to www.w4ax.com.  Scroll down to the box that says Frequency, click the 40M button (40 meter band) and then click the + and - buttons to move the receive frequency around.  Note the yellow trapezoid that shows the bandwidth you are listening to.  In the Bandwidth window click the USB button (upper side band) when listening to 20M.  On 40M and on all the others click LSB.  For technical reasons I forget the old timers picked the convention of using USB for 20M and shorter bands and LSB for the longer bands.

Down at the left (low frequency) end of the bands is where the Morse guys hang out.  I'll tune down there and try to copy code.

There used to be more levels of license.  Novice is one of the old ones.  A few years ago they streamlined things.  Now there are just the 3 levels and you don't need Morse for any of them.

Welcome Geek,

I'm going to say what Gil said in a slightly different way.

I strongly suggest you get your ham license.  Just get on the qrz.com practice test site and spend 20min/day grinding through the tests.  In a week or 2 you'll be ready for the test.  Don't worry about the theory for now.  Just learn the correct answers.  Learn enough of the rules and operating procedures to stay out of trouble.  If you make ham radio one of your hobbies the theory will come with time. 

There are 3 levels of license:  Technician, General and Extra.
Technician:  Gets you all the VHF and UHF line of sight stuff.  You can work some of the SW bands, but only with Morse.  You can use the handhelds (usually 5W) or stick a 50W rig in your car, but it's all line of sight VHF/UHF.  Still, a 2meter hand heald will carry much further than a FRS/GMRS plus you can work the repeaters and talk with people 50 miles away via the repeaters.

General:  Gets you most of the SW bands.  Now you can talk around the world with a microphone instead of morse key.

Extra:  Gets you the remaining small slices of the SW bands.  You really don't get that much more.

Unless you are gifted in learning foreigh languages or music, learning Morse will be harder than getting the Tech and General licenses.  On the other hand, Morse will go further on less power, cost less money and you really do become one of ham radio's elite.  The Morse community is very tight but friendly.

Thanks guys.  After reading Gil's adventures with mag loop antennas I almost used this as an excuse to make one.  I've seen set-ups with a 12V gear motor to turn the capacitor and a simple on-off-on switch to control the motor for tuning, but I figure the kid will use it more if he has a no-tune antenna.  Fortunately I don't have any CC&Rs or HOA restrictions and I have lots of 75' tall trees.  I just don't feel like stringing another wire antenna and dealing with lightning protection and getting the wire into the bedroom.  I love my kid, but everything has limits.  Besides, I have a feeling it won't get used much.

The attic is standard wood construction with composite shingles so I think I'm good to go.  When I get it strung I'll post a comparison between it and my basement shack's 180' random wire up 60'. 

Anyone have any experience comparing a wire antenna in the attic vs. outdoors?  Any idea how much gain/sensitivity I'll loose?

I promised my 14yo son that if he passed the 5wpm Morse test he could have a QRP rig in his 2nd story room.  It's looking like I'll have to pay up.  By far the easiest antenna for me to rig is a 1/2wave end fed wire in the attic. The attic is tall with a steep roof pitch and long enough for a 20M antenna.  Because of my situation a wire antenna outside would require a long feed line, a lot of rope, a window feed thru (not good on these 10deg New England winter days) and adding ugly to the house.  And with the wire in the attic I'll put a lightning arrestor on the coax to protect the radio's input from lightning's EMP but it won't take a direct strike so I won't have to come up with a heavy earth ground to the 2nd floor.