Radio Preppers

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jonas Parker on September 02, 2012, 12:35:45 pm

Title: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: Jonas Parker on September 02, 2012, 12:35:45 pm
Scenario: the S has HTF in any of the scenarios of your choice.  "Big Sis" and the DHS have shut down telephone, cell phone, and internet coms.  The local radio/TV hacks are broadcasting the standard message "Keep calm! Stay in your homes!" As a ham with a "general" class ticket, you fire up your rig on emergency power.

Question: What frequency will you tune to first, and in what mode? Why?
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: gil on September 02, 2012, 01:04:34 pm
Hello,

First I would turn on my 2m handheld on and start scanning.

Second, I would jump on 20 and 40m to check news from further away. People might not know locally or regionally about what is going on, but Ham in different states or even countries/continents might have heard news about the event...

I think both HF and VHF are a necessity.

Gil.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: Scott on September 02, 2012, 01:47:14 pm
Depends on the scope of the incident.  What S has H what F? 

If we're talking about a local or regional incident, most likely my first movement will be to check my local ARES frequencies on 2m for activity to see if I've been activated, and if so, in what capacity.  If there's nothing there, I'd followed my section's comm plan and try to find the relevant net.

If you're talking TEOTWAWKI, get the hell off the radio.  You'll have time for that in your BOV on your way to BOL.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: Frosty on September 02, 2012, 03:23:26 pm
I'd be scanning VHF and CB, I'd want to know what the police/fire/em/ems were doing locally first, and CB'er reactions/observations.  I live in the boonies, so I'd probably pull the rubber duck on one handheld scanner to just pick up anything real close that might be a cause for concern.  Then depending, either start DX'ing to see what happened, or leave the wife in the shack with a recorder so I could listen later, while I start securing the property.  This would be 'shut up and listen time' imo, but that's pretty much my normal mode anyway. 

But, if the Feds did decide to go to the trouble of trying to impose a communications blackout by shutting down telephone/cell/internet service, then it might be a bad time to be a licensed ham too.  See the recent "ASSIGNMENT OF NATIONAL SECURITY AND EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS COMMUNICATIONS FUNCTIONS" executive order, there's some disturbing sections regarding "privately owned communications resources" and "deactivation, or closing of radio stations, services, and facilities".
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: bu2chlc on September 02, 2012, 03:31:58 pm
I would start "small" on 2m/440 to get a feel for what might be false info. If I understand the circumstances correctly, you are firing up your rig because commercial news outlets are not functioning. This would imply that MAYBE the news outlets are "misinforming" to put it lightly. I would want to start on the local bands to get a feel for reports that might not be accurate or may very well be complete lies. I would then branch out from there once I have confirmed the information is accurate. I have tried to contact hams locally and a few hundred miles out and tried to setup some "challenge/response" questions ahead of time to verify the info I am getting (digital/CW) is really a person I know and trust. I am NOT a fan of crypto, I just want to know that I am not speaking to and unfriendly person on the other end. This is critical when we are not looking for the latest person to get dropped from American Idol, but real, life saving info.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: ConfederateColonel on September 02, 2012, 03:48:06 pm
If it's serious enough as you describe, then it is not local. I would have my shortwave receiver tuning to various foreign stations - I have an extremely low confidence level in what comes from the major media in America. I would tune my HF rig to a prearranged frequency (band varies by time of day) that I and another ham have arranged and practiced. Mode would be SSB to start with - other modes follow in priority. Mostly though, it's just a matter of making and confirming contact with another prepper(s) and then listening and not talking.

The question of what frequency to tune to is something that I am hoping this forum can help sort out. There are several proposals floating around, and this forum is a good place to discuss it.

As a previous post said though, there are other priorities that take precedence over radio stuff. If you're planning to bug out (not much of a plan in my opinion) that comes first. Otherwise, time to circle the wagons and follow what everyone should have - a written list of things that need to be done to secure your location.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: MIA on September 02, 2012, 06:31:16 pm
Quote from: Jonas Parker on September 02, 2012, 12:35:45 pm
Scenario: the S has HTF in any of the scenarios of your choice.  "Big Sis" and the DHS have shut down telephone, cell phone, and internet coms.  The local radio/TV hacks are broadcasting the standard message "Keep calm! Stay in your homes!" As a ham with a "general" class ticket, you fire up your rig on emergency power.

Question: What frequency will you tune to first, and in what mode? Why?


If it is indeed this serious, then you can bet that the Amateur Radio Service has been suspended also. It has happened before, in WWII, and could very quickly happen again. If that is the case, then as ConfederateColonel said, "I would have my shortwave receiver tuning to various foreign stations".
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: KC5OTL on September 02, 2012, 07:58:24 pm
If it's a local emergency, I'd certianly monitor the local 2 meter repeaters and CB.  If it is a national or global event, I'd be listening to shortwave, as well, to find out the extent of the event.

But if Amateur radio becomes suspended, I would not be talking, potentially giving my location away to the Federalies.

If we experience an EMP or CME event, it would be at least two weeks before I'd be breaking out the radio equipment I have protected.

Y'all do have some of your radio and test equipment EMP protected, right?
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: ScottHW on September 03, 2012, 07:59:12 am
Quote from: KC5OTL on September 02, 2012, 07:58:24 pm

Y'all do have some of your radio and test equipment EMP protected, right?


I recently invested in these:

http://techprotectbag.com/

and have all my HAM gear (and other stuff too) in these bags.  Some of it is further embedded within other containers for multi level protection, but all radios (Unless I am actively using them of course), stay in these now.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: gil on September 03, 2012, 09:41:33 am
Hello,

Anyone who thinks EMP protection is overkill should read this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859)

Gil.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: Sunflower on September 03, 2012, 12:37:19 pm
The only frequency I would like jump on right now is "Crying." I don't know enough yet to really make good use of the equipment I do have.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: Jonas Parker on September 03, 2012, 01:29:48 pm
Quote from: MIA on September 02, 2012, 06:31:16 pm
Quote from: Jonas Parker on September 02, 2012, 12:35:45 pm
Scenario: the S has HTF in any of the scenarios of your choice.  "Big Sis" and the DHS have shut down telephone, cell phone, and internet coms.  The local radio/TV hacks are broadcasting the standard message "Keep calm! Stay in your homes!" As a ham with a "general" class ticket, you fire up your rig on emergency power.

Question: What frequency will you tune to first, and in what mode? Why?


If it is indeed this serious, then you can bet that the Amateur Radio Service has been suspended also. It has happened before, in WWII, and could very quickly happen again.


Why is it that I would expect some bit if "civil disobedience" were this to happen?
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: ConfederateColonel on September 03, 2012, 02:16:27 pm
Quote from: MIA on September 02, 2012, 06:31:16 pm
Why is it that I would expect some bit if "civil disobedience" were this to happen?


Correct. I suspect that some folks visualize what they may have seen in the movies - teams of government agents with RDF trucks tracking down evil radio operators the moment a microphone is keyed.

First of all, RDF (Radio Direction Finding) is a VERY inexact science. If you're using VHF or UHF, and you're careless about transmitting, then you're making it easy for the Dark Side. If you are using HF - especially if you are using an NVIS antenna setup - it is nearly impossible to accurately track down and pinpoint the source.

Second, unless you are actively and openly using radio to attack the government, they will have much bigger fish to fry. Unfortunately, the FCC and their kind are not the only ones to worry about.

There is clearly a slice of the ham community that gets a feeling of power by going with the Dark Side. They will gladly track down and turn in their fellow ham operators for daring to defy "official government orders". Anyone who has been involved in ARES and RACES knows what I'm talking about. They are the folks who like to be seen wearing official-looking patches and name tags; maybe even some sort of uniform-looking clothing. They often have more flashing lights on their vehicle than an ambulance, and maybe an "Emergency Communications" sign on it. They seldom smile, and refer to people as "civilians". It was the prevalence of folks like that that caused me to drop out of any organized ham activities. I used the be the county ARES coordinator and assistant RACES officer here. Never again.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: Frosty on September 03, 2012, 03:03:57 pm
Not having your name and address in the (publicly searchable) FCC database of licensees makes you a little harder to locate too.

Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: gil on September 03, 2012, 04:13:12 pm
Quoterefer to people as "civilians".


I would burst out laughing if I ever heard something like that!
I don't think I could walk by a lights-and-signs car without making snazzy comments either  ::)

Gil.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: KC5OTL on September 03, 2012, 05:40:45 pm
When the SHTF, you can bet that Amateur radio will be suspended, along with FRS, GMRS, CB snd licensed business bands, as well.

I don't think the FED's will be driving around with direction finders, looking for the defiant individual.  But than too, we don't really know what the authorities will actually be doing.

In any event, if you do transmitt, it should be on the lowest possible power available and, sparingly.

I think that from and Amateir point, direction finding is as much trial & error as it is a skill.  But to be sure, I have known some military people over the years and they tell me that a transmitters direction can be determened within miliseconds.

And if you are one of those people who spent a ton of money on encripted radios, true, the FEDs can't understand you - you hope!  But even though the FEDs might not be aboe to make what you are saying, you are still transmitting.

The real fact is, just like with QRP, the local oscilator in a radion can be detected from afar as it, in itself is emmitting RF radiation.  In fact, I've heard that the Germans use to zerk in on AM radio receivers during WWII.

Those of you hams who are fortinuate enough to have a spectrum analyzer, connect it up to an antenna and see what pops up in your area.  You will be amazed at what you will detect.

So becareful about what you think is possible and not possible!
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: roscoe on September 04, 2012, 11:17:23 am
Good advice & insights, KC5OTL, thanks for sharing that.

I'd only add that any encryption attracts unwanted attention and Feds can figure out & discover source of
most anything, once you've gotten yourself onto their radar in using it.

Better to have prearranged codes amongst your team, utilizing in the clear typical & common conversations in
your radio comms, like talking about the weather, with which you've got numerous variables that can mean a
variety of things to your team alone. Weather can be about past, current or future, with wind direction and
speed, rain, temperatures, humidity, etc., whether it's being spoken of as already seen or desired. There are
plenty of variables in a short mention of weather that can convey a ton of private information, without notice,
if you develop it and then codify it amongst your team.

PS - Here's an example of one base anxious for an update of when another group in transit will be arriving,
and how many in their party, while also warning them of hostilities west of their location to then avoid using
that route. And, then the response from in-transit team of when they'll be arriving and number in their party.

Base would sprinkle into normal conversation;
Saw some thunder west of here yesterday, wondering when we'll ever see rain and how much?

In transit group;
Heard you could see more than 3 inches before weeks end.

Above is pretty basic, not too cryptic, just for an example, but to mix it up more you could have pre-arranged
that all compass directions are reversed or clockwise forwarded by 90 degrees and all references to rain, time
or wind speed be doubled or X10, or cut in half or tenths, if a "more than" or "less than" is used with them, etc.

Above, of course, is assuming that comms are not prohibited that you'd even be talking about the weather, but
still a lot of essential information was conveyed very quickly that did not mean anything to anyone else, and you
did it without attracting additional unwanted attention from the Feds by using a recognized encryption mode. 
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: Ca Hoss on September 04, 2012, 06:54:32 pm
Hi Jonas,

Allow me to introduce myself. I am Hoss. Today is my first day here and this is my first reply/post.
I live in California so for me it would be 11 meter 38-lsb. I want to know what is or has  happened
out over the Pacific. I have a good shot to Hawaii and all the way through Australia with contacts through the islands. These folks live and die by radio chatter. So that and local sevices on the scanner,
try to get as much intel (good or bad) as I can. Get informed and then inform other as I dig in or bugg out depending on the condition of the fan.

73's
Hoss
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: Jonas Parker on September 05, 2012, 11:26:33 am
Thanks for the info Hoss! Another entry into my "little black book"!
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: Sunflower on September 06, 2012, 09:58:01 pm
Quote from: Frosty on September 03, 2012, 03:03:57 pm
Not having your name and address in the (publicly searchable) FCC database of licensees makes you a little harder to locate too.

Is it work to stay off the list?
Are there more pluses than possible negatives to being on the list?
Thanks, Tess
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: Sunflower on September 06, 2012, 10:37:40 pm
Quote from: Ca Hoss on September 04, 2012, 06:54:32 pm
Hi Jonas,

Allow me to introduce myself. I am Hoss. Today is my first day here and this is my first reply/post.
I live in California so for me it would be 11 meter 38-lsb. I want to know what is or has  happened
out over the Pacific. I have a good shot to Hawaii and all the way through Australia with contacts through the islands. These folks live and die by radio chatter. So that and local sevices on the scanner,
try to get as much intel (good or bad) as I can. Get informed and then inform other as I dig in or bugg out depending on the condition of the fan.

73's
Hoss

Welcome Hoss. In your first sentence, I think you were referencing an antenna. Right? 38 Ibs is what? communication strength?  Thanks, I am very new.

Attention Guys and gals - by now you will have notice just how new I am. I have had an interest for a long while, but never had a chance to take the interest off the back burner to the many things I hope to accomplish and learn in this life.

I was over 40 before I took my first piano lesson, and then went on to play several recitals. I never did get great, but I could entertain myself and took great pleasure learning to play a few songs. I am too rusty to do much now.

Back to Radio. Is it OK if I stay on this forum and keep trying to pickup up vocabulary and basic understanding of radio?
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: Ca Hoss on September 06, 2012, 11:00:20 pm
Hi sunflower,

38LSB = Channel 38 Lower Side Band 27.3850 mhz

That is the 11 meter LSB open call channel

Thanks for the welcome

73's
Hoss
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: Frosty on September 07, 2012, 12:29:15 am
Quote from: Sunflower on September 06, 2012, 09:58:01 pm
Is it work to stay off the list?
Are there more pluses than possible negatives to being on the list?
Thanks, Tess


Hi Tess.  I'd say it depends on the scenario.  In a war, radio stations are captured or destroyed, but never ignored.   Also consider who the licensing authority is, the FCC falls under DHS now.  Are you sure they're always going to act in your best interests?  Take care.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: KC5OTL on September 07, 2012, 01:02:22 pm
Quote from: Frosty on September 07, 2012, 12:29:15 am
...the licensing authority is, the FCC falls under DHS now.  Are you sure they're always going to act in your best interests?


Say, has the DHS has ever acted in the publics best interest?  Just another reason I rarely ever talk on the radio - making the justification for their imediate loss of use as they are EMP protected.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: RadioRay on September 07, 2012, 02:39:25 pm
"...civilians..."   mooo--ha-ha-ha'nuf said.

---

First and formost, what is on your doorstep is most important, so local repeaters, local 'public safety frequencies' and etc. are most likely to tel you what is seen happening in your area, which will effect you soonest. I was in more than one earthquake in L.A. , Ca. After the shaking stopped, ALL of the commercial radio stations were all giving the 'limited damage... all is well' speach.  However: the 2 meter rig in the car told a different story of broken & flaming gas lines, downed power lines, cracked overpasses...  Remember: when the government says "all is well", it really means "run like hell!" .

For the wider view I rely heavily upon the Maritime Mobile Service Network //14300USB//.  It 'IT' is happening in the world, they usually know about it and keep people posted, not only sailors, but eveyone.  Antoher, after an 'event is the Salvation Army Emergency Radio Network, usually on 14265USB coordinating relif efforts, heling refugees and etc.  We aso have a very active 80 meter nets frequency tht serves as a hub to keep track of what is happening in this grouping of states.

SHORTWAVE RADIO NEWS: If you REALLY want to know the news in the USA, you listen to foreign broadcasters. Everyone has an agenda and tilts their news different ways.  By listening to a few differeing nation's views on events, you can 'read between the lines' to know more of what it really going on.  Because our controlled media inside of the USA is largely the same, this leaves few differences in actual reporting to read between the lines.

The Colonel is correct:  HF direction finding does NOT a produce a precise location until they are well within your line of site, either by DF car or DF aircraft. HF, particularly NVIS is very, very difficult - nearly impossible to precisely locate a station because all of the signal is coming in from nearly straight UP.  If the transmitting station is NVIS in a city , it's simply not going to happen unless the transmitting station is ratted-out by a neighbor or via his own computer,  or lays a brick on his key to leave a constant carrier after coming to the attention of a three letter agency. Even then, it has to be sooooo long and strong that the DF'ers have time to get to the block he's on and even then ,it's very very tough. Send your traffic, change you modes, frequencies and patterns and move out casually, blend in and most of all - zip your lip.

First Though: consider whether what you're sending is REALLY that important.  Listen much,  transmit little.


73 de Ray ..._ ._




VHF/UHF cellphones...


Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: gil on September 07, 2012, 03:31:30 pm
I think there is a lot to say about transparency.. In an real emergency situation, I don't think going all "tactical," as many might be tempted to do, is a good idea. If you're just trying to find out what's going on, who cares.. As Ray says, listen, transmit little. You want to draw little attention, take care of your family and friends and survive. Keep the camo face paint for later. There probably are satellites up there that can triangulate a signal in seconds. I would be much more worried about the gangs of thugs a few blocks from my house than anything else.
Radio might be very important to gather potentially life-saving information, but it would have another most important role: To make us feel less isolated and give us hope.

Gil.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: Gambrinus on September 18, 2012, 09:31:25 pm
Quote from: ScottHW on September 03, 2012, 07:59:12 am
Quote from: KC5OTL on September 02, 2012, 07:58:24 pm

Y'all do have some of your radio and test equipment EMP protected, right?


I recently invested in these:

http://techprotectbag.com/

and have all my HAM gear (and other stuff too) in these bags.  Some of it is further embedded within other containers for multi level protection, but all radios (Unless I am actively using them of course), stay in these now.


Aren?t those the same bags that you get electronics in?

It?s hard to believe that that is enough protection. I would rather get those then to go through all the trouble of building some elaborate contraption. Of course it will be too late to get your money back or leave a bad review.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: gil on September 18, 2012, 09:45:49 pm
No, those are a bit thicker..

Gil.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: fastback65 on September 20, 2012, 09:16:10 am
The frequency I tune to will depend on the time of day.  After 1800 hours it would be 3.862  during daylight hours it would be 7.970.   For VHF, I would try the local repeaters and then go to 146.540.  The HF frequencies are the frequencies the state EOC operates on and the VHF frequency is a frequency a small group of friends have decided on.  I also have a "Private" frequency that may just be out of the HAM band, that my wife's radio and mine will be tuned to.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: KC5OTL on September 20, 2012, 06:27:53 pm
Quote from: gil on September 18, 2012, 09:45:49 pm
No, those are a bit thicker..

Gil.


Say Gil,

Aren't those "Tech-Bags" just heavy duty anti-static bags?  And aren't anti-static bags, just that - they protect the components within, from an electrical discharge - meaning, high voltage?

Those bags will not prevent a high energy magnetic pulse from getting into your equipment because, they are not designed to block magnetic fields, but rather, an electrical discharge caused by high static voltage buildup.

An EMP will go right through that anti-static bagg and induce a voltage within the (assumed) protected equipment, as if that bag wasn't even there.  An experiment... take a FRS or GMRS radio and place it in that "Tech-Bag" and see if it prevents RF reception from its mate.  If the FRS radio Tweedle-dees when called, you have no EMP protection - AT ALL!  For that matter, try it with a trash can with a lid, you will find that there is no protection there, either!

Before I become convinced that an anti-static bag will protect against an EMP event, I would need some valid and convincing proof!

There is a reason why Aluminum and Mu metal is used in RF or Faraday shielding - because it works best at protecting from unwanted stray electromagnetic radiation.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: gil on September 20, 2012, 08:52:53 pm
Hi, maybe, I don't know. Of course the site says they're "special." I wouldn't personally rely on that only. I use metal boxes...

Gil.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: KC5OTL on September 20, 2012, 11:10:20 pm
All of my 2-meter handy-talkies and some hand-held test equipment are protected in the following way.

A layer of paper towel is wrapped around the radio.  A layer of Aluminum foil is then applied, totally sealing the device within the Aluminum.  This is done three times.  Then the assembly is wrapped in a paper towel, one last time and the whole thing is placed into an anti-static bag, along with any accessories, such as antenna, power pack, meters leads and such.  The entire package is then placed in an appropriately sized cookie tin that my wife bickered about my stealing from her.  I have most of my equipment protected this way.  My next consideration is to purchase a couple steel trash cans and place all of my protected equipment in that.

I'm sure that other people have their methods but this is what I have done after having learned some things about RF shielding when working on radio equipment for a commercial company where we worked in a fairly large faraday cage.

Conventional RF is somewhere in the low microvolts per meter, and it is difficult to block, until you understand how to do so.  An EMP generated pulse is somewhere between 30 and 100 kilovolts per meter.  The current generated by microvolts is next to nothing, compared to the current induced by a 30 to 100 Kilovolt pulse.

Did you know that if you have a spherical shaped metal container and you placed a billion volts on the surface, the entire inside remains neutral and totally safe, as long as you don't climb out of the thing before the surface charge is removed?  Both Tesla and Van digraph proved this point.  So, my point is that you really want to totally enclose things you want protected in a container that has good magnetic repelling properties.

A magnetic field cannot go through Aluminum, it has to go around.  That is the exact reason the old analog mechanical speedometers worked.  It's called "Eddy" current and is a friction property of Aluminum to a magnetic field.  That is why most of the shielding in radios and computers are made of Mu metal.  Mu metal is a specially formulated Aluminum composition that enhances the penetration resistance of Aluminum to magnetic fields.

EMP is a complex subject, to be sure.  And what you need to know is that, much of what you read about EMP protection on the Internet is purely bunk!  Take the Microwave oven, for example.  The shielding in the microwave door is designed to prevent microwave energy from leaving the appliance during operation.   The microwave pulse width of the Megatron in your typical microwave oven is much larger than the holes in the door shielding.  But the initial EMP pulse will penetrate the shielding in the microwave door because the holes are much larger than the pulse width of the EMP pulse.

The fact is, even using your high end gun safe may well be prone because the spaces between the door and the main cabinet are way too large.  It is the very reason why your standard voltage spike protection for computers will not work - an EMP pulse is simply too narrow and too fast in the rise-time for conventional protection to be of any use.  The EMP pulse will have come and gone, before the typical protection mechanisms even begin to respond.

I hope this helps somewhat...
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: Frosty on September 21, 2012, 06:49:06 am
Layered, or nested, shielding here as well.  Multiple thin layers of conductive material with insulation between provides better protection than a single layer, no matter how thick. Ungrounded being better unless you have some pretty deep pockets for materials and test equipment.  Jerry Emanuelson at futurescience (www.futurescience.com/emp.html) has written a lot of articles on EMP, I sure hope he knows what he's talking about anyway.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: Gambrinus on September 21, 2012, 08:00:19 am
Is there any need for grounding the containers? Or is that something that should be avoided?
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: KC5OTL on September 21, 2012, 06:58:33 pm
Quote from: Gambrinus on September 21, 2012, 08:00:19 am
Is there any need for grounding the containers? Or is that something that should be avoided?


There is much discussion on grounding.  The thing is, the EMP pulse even gets into the earth and creates a ground wave.  In the 1800s, the underwater intercontinental cabling became damaged because of the intensity of the CME arriving from the sun.  Research has shown that destructive EMP energy had been seen as far as several meters below ground level.

Some people argue that the protection should be grounded, other people say not to ground.

Again, if a surface charge has no influence at the inside of a totally enclosed metallic enclosure, it shouldn't matter if that enclosure is grounded, or not.  And as well, if the protective enclosure is constructed using a material that the magnetic energy cannot penetrate, there would be no need for grounding.

I personally think that grounding protected equipment will be worse because then, you have a source of pulse energy from at least two places, a ground wave pulse and surface EMP energy pulse.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: piggybankcowboy on September 30, 2012, 02:33:34 pm
Do you guys know if it's true that devices are less likely to be effected by EMP if they're turned off? There seems to be some debate on this, from what I gather, though I am not very versed in the subject.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: gil on September 30, 2012, 03:12:44 pm
Probably true, but if the EMP is strong enough, like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859
it won't matter.. Everything with transistors, chips, etc. will fry if not protected.
Here are my two EMP containers. I hope it is enough!
(http://radiopreppers.com/images/metalboxes.jpg)
I plan on doubling the protection with Faraday bags anyway..

Gil.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: cockpitbob on October 04, 2012, 10:02:25 pm
Quote from: fastback65 on September 20, 2012, 09:16:10 am
The frequency I tune to will depend on the time of day.  After 1800 hours it would be 3.862  during daylight hours it would be 7.970.   For VHF, I would try the local repeaters and then go to 146.540.  The HF frequencies are the frequencies the state EOC operates on and the VHF frequency is a frequency a small group of friends have decided on.  I also have a "Private" frequency that may just be out of the HAM band, that my wife's radio and mine will be tuned to.
There it is in a nutshell!
Use your rigs.  Develop friends around the country and world.  When the SHTF you'll know what frequency to go to.  It will be one you and your friends  have always used.

Remember, when things suddenly get bad, you don't rise to the occasion.  You fall back to your level of trianing and prepardness.

Use your rigs.  You can call it fun, socializing, prepping, contesting or whatever.  A SHTF situation is not the time to be figuring things out.  You want it all to be reflex.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: raybiker73 on October 04, 2012, 11:18:17 pm
For radio gear, I have an old metal ammo box, I believe it was once used for mortar rounds. It measures about 2.5' x 1.5' x 1' deep, and it has a pretty tight seal. My "emergency" radio gear goes in there. I cleaned it up really well, and welded over the couple of small holes that had been drilled into it. I also welded a little buffer piece around the inside of the lid so that it makes contact all the way across with no gaps, then coated the inside of the box with truck bed liner. Thick cardboard cutouts are attached to the entire interior surface and lid using hot glue. Next will be to fill the inside with egg foam, then make cutouts for the equipment. The items themselves will be in foil-covered boxes nested in the foam, with the cardboard, hot glue and bedliner keeping them away from the metal surfaces. For other small electronics I may want to preserve, I have a 2-drawer filing cabinet that I up-armored to close off any gaps, then lined it much the same way as the ammo box. Will it work? Who knows? Hope I never have to find out.
Title: Re: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: AE5J on October 10, 2012, 11:41:32 am
A couple of thoughts as I read through this came to mind. First, having worn a badge with a PD for 10 years and a FD badge as a medic for a like time, I can say this with some certainty. I think we will probably find that civil (or military) authorities in a major national disaster will be way too busy handling other things than to go track down folks transmitting harmless information via privately owned radios. That is just so far down the list of priorities that I would be greatly surprised if anything ever came of it.

This is not the 1940?s. Weapons systems do not home on sporadic or broadcast radio signals anymore-unless they are directing military strikes. There is really no legitimate reason to suspend private transmit activities, unless they are a part of the problem which caused the emergency in the first place or interfering with the handling of that problem. And there is absolutely no way to enforce such a suspension. How many tens of thousands of transmitters would have to be tracked? And how many personnel would need to be dispatched to deal with ?illegal? transmissions? CB radio proved that task beyond the scope of even the federal government.

Sure, anyone transmitting CAN be tracked with sophisticated equipment only governments can afford, but who would devote the resources of a military intelligence unit to finding a bunch of folks chatting about the weather on non-encrypted, non-frequency agile equipment? It just isn?t likely. If it was a pressing national security issue, then yes, they might come looking for you. I also seriously doubt the broadcast media would even heed such an order from a bureaucracy. They have a valid constitutional argument about public safety. In short, there will be much bigger fish to fry.

Back to the original question. Where would I listen?

Local law enforcement and fire first, and a good scanner is essential. Ideally, two good scanners ? one for LEO/Fire and another dedicated to aircraft (FAA) and other good sources of reliable information ? NORAD air defense frequencies for example.

Would I listen to Ham VHF/UHF? Only in a minor way. Hams are just like everyone else. Very few really know what is going on at any given time. The same for CB and FRS. You can invest a lot of valuable time for very little really useful information. Most of my communications resources (local that is) would be dedicated to gathering my family and allowing them to avoid any known hazards.

Beyond that, using ham resources; 20 meters during the daylight hours; 40 or 75 meters after dark. Listen much, transmit little-unless I really have something vital to say.

Whew! My first post and way too much expounding on my opinions.
73....Pete
Title: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: White Tiger on October 22, 2012, 09:27:20 am
AEJ5 - I think you brought up some interesting points. I too, believe that the nature of the event has some bearing on the response from a central control.

What I find interesting is, there are so many movies/TV/books out today with a theme that some centralized authority, or some rogue element within the centralized authority (I'll call them an "entity"), is behind it...

The effect of having our entertainment deal with these matters can either confirm a fear, or produce that fear. So it acts as either a warning, or propaganda.

If such (involvement) is the case - then we have to assume thatwhatever our plans are - those in authority have a pretty good idea of how the civilian populace will react. For instance, with so many transactions done by credit card - they have the ability to track purchases. The DHS and the FBI have even circulated handbills to retail owners asking them to help narrow the scope of their searches by notifying each agency of certain types of purchases (long-term food storage, weapons purchases, and large ammo buys) in which non-traceable cash is used.

That means they know where any type of resistance would occur, geographically, and involving which segment of the population. Long-term food storage, weapons and Internet ammo purchases are all coming under scrutiny for a reason...adding to the worrying and troublesome behavior of collecting the means to provide for your sustainability and the means of protecting your provisions: the ability to communicate between like minded segments of the population (nearby and far away), would give us the ability to coordinate...and that would seem concerning to any centralized authority/entity, or rogue element entity, bent on control! Having the ability to communicate means they don't control what is being heard...and that would seem INconsistent with the concepts of control.

So what do you think they would plan for? Do you think an entity that has become invasive - and made it their right to know what goes on under your roof, in your wallet, and bank account, would be caught off guard by something you would do? Do you think they haven't had a lot of practice subduing civilian populations that have lost faith in centralized authority? That has always occurred outside our borders - what if our centralized authority came to see a segment of (domestic) population - as a threat? What if either the entity we know as centralized authority, or a rogue element within that entity, is behind an SHTF event?

It has happened numerous times in our hemisphere: when countries have weak economic conditions, high levels of dissatisfaction in their leadership, and that country suddenly undergoes some type of trigger event which allows for a heavy demonstration of power in order to attain stability.

I feel that having learned and achieved certification in the basic concepts/capabilities of radio operating - is beneficial for any type of event. But I think that the ability to communicate - especially in specific geographic regions of the country - can and would be severely diminished, if not completely shut down. I used to live in the Panhandle area of Florida - if you we're anywhere near Eglin AFB you know the jamming technology is pretty pervasive. I would imagine any military base around the country the same type of thing occurs...now, if they have the ability to do that during times of peace and stability - what can they do in times of unrest and in areas they decide are unstable?

I don't have the answers to these questions, but logic leads me to draw some conclusions. Could be, I woke up this morning having had a bad dream...or not having got enough sleep...but sometimes, I just wonder...
Title: A question for all prepper hams
Post by: White Tiger on October 22, 2012, 09:54:18 am
Also - here is a real life story for what actually happened when a modern country saw an economic collapse unfold before their eyes:

Selco: One Year In Hell (http://shtfschool.com/community/selco-one-year-in-hell/)

Not affiliated with this website - just heard his story on a podcast and became intrigued. From the website, here is the introductory bio of the story:"Selco" survived the Balkan war of the 90s in a city under siege, without electricity, running water, or food distribution..."

His experiences caused him to start a school focused on teaching long-term survival skills to any interested - thats what his website is about...but hisstory is what fascinated me.

I guess we all have our own motivating factors for what caused us to begin prepping...when I heard this mans story, it confirmed my thoughts and opened my eyes to things I could never have imagined...it also caused me to add other things to my Prepps.