Radio Preppers

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: WA4STO on October 26, 2012, 11:36:20 am

Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: WA4STO on October 26, 2012, 11:36:20 am
This makes me wonder if they're gonna be interested in the antennas out back... oh, and the "terror-mongering" stuff in the shack...

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/national-guard-whistleblower-doomsday-preppers-will-be-treated-as-terrorists_10252012 (http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/national-guard-whistleblower-doomsday-preppers-will-be-treated-as-terrorists_10252012)

73 de WA4STO
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: Mitch on October 26, 2012, 11:53:49 am
That's really sad, do people believe that bunk from Soldier X?

I'm certainly skeptical...

Especially with regards to election riots?
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on October 26, 2012, 12:05:55 pm
I don't believe the elections would spark any civil unrest either..
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: Mitch on October 26, 2012, 12:09:39 pm
People obviously taking the new TV series Revolution too seriously...

Preppers are gonna be the ones hiding and staying low for the first weeks or perhaps months after the SHTF, seems like they would be the least likely to need National Guard attention.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: raybiker73 on October 26, 2012, 07:16:06 pm
I take reports like this with a pretty huge grain of salt. Look at it this way, even if the most paranoid fever-dreamed worst case scenario were to be true, how on earth would they implement it? Even with 100% participation and 100% engagement, where would they even start? Take Afghanistan, for example. It's not even the size of Texas, and has a population of about 35 million. For the last 150 years, everybody from the US to the Soviet Union to the British Empire at the height of their power couldn't fully occupy and pacify Afghanistan. Now, multiply the population by 10 and the land mass to be occupied by about 50, and you see what it would take to do this in the U.S. Don't get me wrong, I believe that post-election riots in some cities are pretty likely, I don't think our government is exactly on "our side," and I think that there are those in government who would love to try something like this, but it just ain't gonna happen, at least not this way. I think the only realistic SHTF situations involve outside factors, such as a massive war or a Carrington Event-level solar flare or a total global economic meltdown the likes of which has never been seen before. As far as the government declaring martial law and clamping down on 300 million people? It would be like trying to neutralize a swarm of bees with a BB gun.
Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on October 27, 2012, 01:24:52 pm
That's why it's much easier to put down a revolution - before it starts.

Make sure that when you take away rights and force the population to accept huge piles of debt - that you feed them properly - and that they know where the food came from.

Change happens when some are forced to share too much of societies burdens - then the rest of that societies population.

Unfortunately, technology has pretty much eliminated the ability to forcibly change a modern government.

That is not a good thing, but it means smarter more sure, but very slow methods of change must be used.

It's why some of us prepp - because we know that it is not possible to physically fight off people who buy ammo by the ton - BUT - that does not mean I will accept tyrannical shifts and pressures.

It is getting bad - there are those that say we're already in an economic collapse - because most times, an economic collapse does not happen overnight, it's a slow progression of inflation, continued job losses, moments of massive wealth destruction (wiping out savings and investments)...and a government that wants you to believe what you see, isn't really happening...

Anyone here is a modern day "change agent". You speak your mind - even if it isn't popular - and you defy anyone who wants to limit your speech. That is how I know some of us will eventually reach a limit as to what we will take - that is the fertile ground where change begins.

We still "change" things, just do it differently now.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on October 27, 2012, 02:12:53 pm
QuoteUnfortunately, technology has pretty much eliminated the ability to rebel against a modern government.


Not quite so. Look at Afghanistan... There are plenty of people around the world doing so. That said, we must do everything we can to avoid getting to that point. I would even suggest not discussing things like that here. Unfortunately, people do not seem to know that there are other parties than Democrats and Republicans, but they will not vote for them. I am convinced that a Libertarian president could save the United States, but voters are too concerned about what little inconsequential and immediate small benefits their candidates promise them. Then, and I shouldn't even mention that, there are religious issues at play. Religion is one's own business and should not mix with politics. It's in the Constitution. Not only should we have separation of Church and State, but Also separation of business and State. Neither will ever happen. Still, we must vote for the best possible candidate, and unfortunately, it isn't one of those two puppets everyone is debating about. Sad thing is, people will get what they deserve, what they voted for, what they said nothing against. What annoys me is that when the SHTF, I'll get splattered too, all because most of the population are fools. Give a rowdy kid a box of matches, he will set something on fire... We are the parents. There is no point in spanking the kid after the house has burned down. We simply must not give him dangerous toys to play with in the first place.

Revolution? Not me. I'm planning on survival, and revolution doesn't promote survival. If I owned a big chunk of land and had built my house on it, I would be prepared, but I have nothing. I can simply turn around and leave if I don't like where things are going.

Tim is right, there are better ways, like speaking your mind, and spreading knowledge.

So, no more of the "R" word here please, and if you guys want to talk politics, keep it clean and civil, that's fine. Thank you.

Gil.
Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on October 27, 2012, 03:18:46 pm
Me either Gil, doesn't mean we choose to ignore reality and pretend its all ok...it means we are taking steps to protect ourselves and our families/ friends - when the consequences of bad government finally make it difficult to decide between paying your electric bill, or buying food.

Food is more important than anything - but only if you have a warm, safe, dry, place to eat it.

Prepare for the worst, work for the best.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: KC9TNH on October 27, 2012, 05:21:37 pm
Quote from: White Tiger on October 27, 2012, 03:18:46 pm
Food is more important than anything - but only if you have a warm, safe, dry, place to eat it.
And the means to keep it.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on October 27, 2012, 05:50:13 pm
I would say in order:



You can go a long time without food.

Gil.
Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on October 27, 2012, 07:30:41 pm
Two weeks...but again, depending on the nature of the collapse/SHTF event...do you think it is more likely you will be able to wander freely and find a lot of food, or do you think travel will be restricted (either by ROL or individuals taking advantage of a lack of ROL)?

My idea is that you need to be able to get...somewhere...but you need to initially plan to hold-up immediately after the event.

Meaning, don't wait until the value of food (and water) climbs, plan now for the most likely scenarios.

Otherwise you put yourself in the camps of the zombies....

And Gil's list works - no matter which direction you use it - if you start preparing to acquire those items BEFORE an event.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on October 27, 2012, 07:47:37 pm
Hello,

I think travel would be both restricted and risky. Traveling by road would certainly be a no-no.
I would only travel on foot, at night, avoiding roads, and only if I had to.
The problem with stocking stuff at home is that it can be taken, by the authorities or looters.
Looters, we all know how to deal with. The authorities, you can't deal with in the same manner.
What happened during Katrina is a prime example.
In one episode of Doomsday Preppers (I know, I know...) a woman had stashed food everywhere around her house, in places nobody would have guessed. Very smart... Even if looters would have found some, most of it would have remained hidden. Another problem is that you can be "evacuated" for "your own good," whether you want to or not.. Another can of worms...
I wouldn't worry about antennas, most people have no idea what a dipole is and think all antennas are vertical. I would have a sacrificial old radio in plain view, the rest hidden.
Any piece of wire can be thrown up a tree to make an antenna. That's why i have internal automatic tuners in my two Elecrafts.
This is not to suggest anything against the law, on the contrary. Those are just precautions against law breakers, and nothing more.

Gil.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: KC5OTL on October 27, 2012, 09:05:16 pm
For those of you living in the city, I feel for you.  But if you are cunning enough to make it out of the city, consider some of these things:

Pre-place some useful survival items in strateigic locations.

From my perspective, water is #1 and, you can only survive about three days with out it.

#2. food
#3. shelter.
#4. defensive protection.

I have given a lot of thought about travel.  I routinely visit Google Earth and study different areas around where I live.  I know where all of the small ponds are, where the densest woods are and where I am least likely to be noticed or bothered.

There will be one fairly safe path to travel, at least until others catch on.  If you look at the high voltage lines coming from every power generation plant, the areas under the wires and around the towers are always clear. These areas are delibirerately maintaind for maintenance of the power grid wiring and towers.  While their path will maybe not take you directly to your intended retreat location, they will get you close.  This will be far easier and safer travel then skirting the roadways or stumbling around in the woods.  I'd say safe travel along these pathways will be about two weeks in an extended SHTF scenario.

Also, for those of you that are physically able, a decent bicycle and a small wagon will allow you to move at a faster pace and with more supplies, especially if you travel at night and use level 1 night vision.  Make sure that you have plenty of spare batteries for the thing.

My fear isn't getting to the retreat location, it's getting home from work as I live 50 miles from my employer and I have only one bridge that I can cross to get home without, either going into Cincinnati or hiking an extra 100 miles to cross the Onio river.  Unless, that is, I dare cross the river with my go-bag with 9 days supply of food and other must-haves.  I've even thought about purchasing a small blow-up raft and keeping it in the trunk of the car.

The brdge that I cross daily to get to and from work will be a major choke-point when the SHTF and I might not be able to cross it, depending who has control of it.
Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on October 27, 2012, 09:18:52 pm
I also like the "sacrificial radio" strategy - as I learned after Luck WA4STO posted the link to NK2DZ's story!

Sacrificial antenna's seem like waaayyy too much work...better to keep a (fan) dipole setup in a go bag for 20 & 40 meters, along with a HT.

I do think the way we will see confiscations of food and weapons/ammo - is when we are evacuated "for our own good" ("never let a crisis go to waste"...as both Karl Rove and Rahman Emmanuel were fond of stating)...therefore hiding caches are mandatory.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: skip67 on November 01, 2012, 05:59:58 pm
Gil, I have learned a lot about radio here, my last radio experience was in the army, many years ago. However, I must tell you, that there is no separation of church and state in the Constitution. Here is what it says.
AMENDMENT I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
. That's all it says about religion, that the state cannot have an "official" religion. The theory of separation of church and state came from a 1948, 5-4, Supreme court decision. If you have time I would suggest reading the Federalist Papers, to get an idea of what the founding fathers had in mind

Skip
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on November 01, 2012, 06:59:48 pm
Quotethat the state cannot have an "official" religion


Thanks Skip, my bad. It's been a while since I read it, and I need to brush up. In all practicality, it comes to the same result.. It is my opinion that mixing them up isn't good practice. I am an admirer of the constitution. It is the background image of my laptop on which I am typing now. I will check out the Federalist Papers, as I haven't read them yet.

Welcome on the forum and have a great week-end  :)

Gil.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: KC9TNH on November 01, 2012, 08:31:06 pm
Quote from: skip67 on November 01, 2012, 05:59:58 pm
Gil, I have learned a lot about radio here, my last radio experience was in the army, many years ago. However, I must tell you, that there is no separation of church and state in the Constitution. Here is what it says.
AMENDMENT I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
. That's all it says about religion, that the state cannot have an "official" religion. The theory of separation of church and state came from a 1948, 5-4, Supreme court decision. If you have time I would suggest reading the Federalist Papers, to get an idea of what the founding fathers had in mind

Skip
Xlnt post, and I would second that recommendation to a read of the Federalist papers or a collection of selected ones. Religion, freedom of, not freedom from (being exposed to it). Many (most nowadays) will be shocked to see Hamilton advocating against what became the Bill of Rights because he was worried that, simply by listing things which shouldn't need listing, someone would want to come along and muck with them.
Hmm. He looks pretty smart now.

Anyway, yep, solid recommendation. The individual letters aren't that long once you get over 18th century prose style - think of a little civics-based mini-series each night before bed. (There are several which are good cures for insomnia, I'll grant that.)
;)
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: raybiker73 on November 01, 2012, 08:56:53 pm
I'll agree with a read of the Federalist Papers, and I'd add a bit more. Start with Thomas Paine's "Common Sense." A better argument in favor of personal liberty would be hard to find. Add to that "The American Revolution" by Robert Sobel, which not only gives a good eye-in-the-sky view of the war itself, but also explores the motives of those on both sides. Follow up with "Founding Brothers: The Revolutionary Generation" by Joseph J. Ellis, and if you want to go farther back, read the works of contractarians like Hobbes, Locke and Rousseau. There is a vast library of insight into the minds of the men who built this nation, but the majority of the American population is willfully ignorant, neither wanting nor caring to know. These books should ALL be on everybody's prepper bookshelf.

Another one that's really good (I just finished reading it) is "Forty Ways to Look at Winston Churchill," by Gretchen Rubin. A fascinating look at a fascinating life, and a good way to learn about the only World War II leader on either side who favored individual liberty and ruggedness over total government control.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on November 01, 2012, 09:03:52 pm
Thanks Ray, that gives me a reading plan!
Gil.
Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on November 02, 2012, 05:52:42 pm
In reality - the education in this country has effectively changed history in order to support the status quo...but a real reading of American history finds that the church was extremely foundational. We have a secular government - but it was ALWAYS intended to be a government of principled people of faith. Many of the conclusions of government come from the reformation - two massive revivals waves swept the country prior to the revolution - and these set in mind the concepts of self-reliance, self-governance, small government was a way of life in the colonies. When big government came here, it came first for the guns....but it also focused on "the black regiment" preachers who informed their congregations of personal responsibilities, but also that railed against tyranny. The Britts didn't like our guns, or our religion and set laws in place addressing assembly, what could be said in an assembly, and gun ownership.

The media, and our educators over the past 100 years have substituted the aims and conclusions of the French Revolution, for those of the ACTUAL American Revolution

We wanted government out of our church, the French wanted the church out of it's government AND even set about about ridding society of all religion.

So, the separation of Church and State came from a letter - the 1st Ammendment isn't JUST about the press...as a matter of fact...the FIRST item discussed by a new governing in America - dealt with keeping the governments greedy influence out of the church. As England's Political head was also the head of the state-run religion!

This topic specifically deals with FEDERAL ESTABLISHMENT of religion...many states had official denominations (i.e., Maryland was Catholic). It didn't mean people were forced to attend specific churches - it meant that the populations of voters specifically chose this for their states.

Your statement regarding keeping government out of our business - is exactly what the whole "freedom" thing was about...taxation of those who had wealth, to drain economic power and then the government would use that confiscated power to support people who agreed with them. In this way the government ruined its enemies, while buying votes from those it supported with "other people's money".

Fortunately for us - the idea of revolution is built into our electoral process.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on November 07, 2012, 12:49:06 am
When the government - as this one has - redefines the primary threat on this country to be "domestic terrorists" and redefines the "terrorist profile" to have the following characteristics: former military, carry a copy if the US Constitution in their wallets, buys  bulk food, ammo, weapons, etc., with cash - and then asks shop owners to report this type of activity to Homeland Security....

Well, you just identified most of the posters on this board...and why the government has become so interested in the blogosphere (that's near the ionosphere, right?)...

I'd say: "dixnay on the iscussion-ne" ...but it seems a bit late for that...
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: raybiker73 on November 07, 2012, 01:51:28 am
Quote from: White Tiger on November 02, 2012, 05:52:42 pm
Fortunately for us - the idea of revolution is built into our electoral process.


Since it's Election Day and I've spent the whole day playing Halo 4 on my XBox rather than watching election news, I'm going to put on my historian helmet and go long with this one.

Your intention is correct, but the tense is wrong. The idea of revolution was built into our electoral process. The founders of this nation were wise enough to know that, given time, any government will become corrupt and damaging to the rights of individual citizens. Like Thomas Jefferson famously said, ?A little revolution now and then is a good thing.? That revolutionary ideal, however, has been excised from the process a spoonful at a time over the past 150 years or so, sometimes by accident and sometimes by design.

You can trace the root of it to the secession movement. Not the one in 1860, though, but the original secession movement, in 1814. Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, Connecticut and Rhode Island sent delegates to what they called the Hartford Convention to begin the process of seceding from the Union. It wasn?t a matter of states rights, though, but quite the opposite: it was a bunch of Federalists. They wanted a separate peace with England to end the War of 1812, and to escape what they believed was political bullying by powerful southern states, particularly Virginia. To make a long story short, it didn?t work out for them, although nobody north or south questioned their right to secede. Their movement having failed, the political attitude of New England over the next 50 years changed to, ?If we can?t get out, we?ll make sure we?re running it from within.?

Fast forward to 1860. When the various southern states seceded from the Union, almost nobody in the population questioned that right. Newspapers in all the northern states, while lamenting the dissolution of the union, believed that the southerners were within their rights to do as they chose.  Those in power in Washington, however, particularly Lincoln, saw their opportunity. I won?t go into the weeds too far talking about the Civil War - if you want that, read MacPherson?s ?Battle Cry of Freedom? - and don?t get me wrong, I?m a good Yankee and reenacted in the blue suit for years. But what the federal government did beyond the abolition of slavery was nothing more than a massive power grab.  Suffice it to say that they managed to slowly and quietly change the narrative, and made it a war to preserve the Union (and by extension the federal government).  You can see it in the speeches and letters of the day. Prior to the events of the 1860?s, the nation was often (not always) referred to in the plural, with people discussing matters in ?these United States,? implying a collection of voluntarily aligned but sovereign entities. During the war, and ever since, you see the nation referred to only in the singular, with people discussing matters in ?the United States.? After the war, the 14th Amendment solidified the view that, concerning the Union, once you?re in, you?re in and that?s that. Rather than individual states being party by agreement to an agreed-upon authority, the states became little more than client states to the federal government.

When the 17th Amendment was ratified in 1913, which took the appointment of U.S. senators away from the state governments and handed it over to popular election, the last representative power of individual states in Washington was dead. The House was intended by the founders to represent the people, and the Senate to represent the states. The 17th Amendment essentially abolished the original function of the Senate and replaced it with a second and differently-apportioned House.

American history since then has been little more than a series of events that moved to centralize power in Washington and move it away from the state capitals. If you want to talk about ?welfare,? the biggest recipients of it are the 50 individual states, who have been maneuvered into a position where without federal monies, they?re sunk. ?So, your state doesn?t want to go along with the 55MPH speed limit? Well, we?ll just withhold all your federal highway funds,? is a particularly extortionate example. The states are now wholly and completely dependent on the central government for their continued existence. Unfortunately, it worked so well on the states, they eventually decided to go ahead and do the same thing to the people as well. And it is, by and large, working out that way.

So yes, the idea of revolution was built into our electoral process, but it was bred out of the beast generations ago. Turn on the TV and you?ll see the proof.

I?ll get off my soapbox and go back to my video games now. :-)
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on November 07, 2012, 03:17:43 am
Quoteread MacPherson?s ?Battle Cry of Freedom?


I always love a good book suggestion, thanks!

Gil.
Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on November 07, 2012, 03:23:46 am
It isn't often I find someone that teaches me something about the American history, and especially about the Civil War, as I fancy myself a bit of a self-taught "buff". However, your concise and precise description allowed me to connect some dots I've been pondering for sometime. I no longer see Lincoln as the "savior of our union" - but something more akin to Bismark's ilk - which would be developing more formalized ideas - we started calling progressivism - just a bit later.

You could argue that had Lincoln lived, his plan for southern reconciliation might have taken the nation in a different direction...but the fact that everything changed because of the war...which he had everything to do with...cannot be overlooked.

A friend of mine locally refers to Lincoln as the "first fascist"...I snickered when I first heard it, but it started me thinking...and as I said, your excellent post kinda tied it (me?) up in knots...

With a pretty bow.

Wow.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: raybiker73 on November 07, 2012, 03:31:35 am
Well, remember that Lincoln really implemented what could be called the first Patriot Act: suspension of habeas corpus, seizure of personal property of those who opposed the government, indefinite detention without charge or trial, etc. I don't think he was a fundamentally bad guy, and he thought what he was doing would make the nation stronger and not get out of hand. But, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: raybiker73 on November 07, 2012, 03:36:26 am
Quote from: gil on November 07, 2012, 03:17:43 am
Quoteread MacPherson?s ?Battle Cry of Freedom?


I always love a good book suggestion, thanks!

Gil.


Battle Cry of Freedom is the best single-volume history of the American Civil War that has ever been written. Even though it's only one-third the size, it's every bit as good as Shelby Foote's 3-volume Civil War series, if not as detailed in the minutiae of the thing. I very, very highly recommend it.
Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on November 07, 2012, 09:58:58 am
I like MacPherson's writing - but I have NOT read "Battle Cry" so I am going to download it to my Kindle ($9.99) - thanks!

Most of us were introduced to Shelby Foote through Ken Burns documentary - but I didn't read his heavily footnoted volumes...because it was so HUGE!

Thanks!
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: KC9TNH on November 07, 2012, 02:43:43 pm
Don't worry about the buffoons in Hollywood making a show about the biggest tinfoil ball on the block. Most of those things feature people we darn sure wouldn't bring home to dinner. As had been quipped to me about the "state of things", we were either taking the long, windy path to the ambush, or we were headed straight down the trail. America, in my view, has now chosen the latter. Alrighty then!

The fact is, under current (and now renewed) doctrine in DC certain segments lend themselves to being marginalized.  It started with the DHS' public statement that veterans trained in skill at arms scared the bejeebers out of them enough to be included as a domestic threat in their annual open-source threat assessment. ("Please let slip the dogs of war, but we really don't feel comfortable when they come home.")

It went to writing domestic insurrection scenarios (and the successful put-down of same) using "Tea Partiers" who were already being demonized. That one got out in the open and the hue & cry resulted in them now literally re-writing their domestic violence scenarios to involve - no kidding - zombies. So it's, uh, theoretical, ok?  Doesn't everyone want to see an up-armored tactical team take down some zombies? (Hint:  I'm old school - FIRE, it's the only way, trust me on that.)
::)

Most of us are in one or more of their categories headed "Despised" if nothing else because of the virtue (to us) of trying to be self-sufficient because the less we need them the less they own. Some of us are probably in a bunch of categories (I probably have a file of my own at this point, but I'm in some pretty good company.) It is in their dicta to do that, it lets them play one against the other, all at a level below them, 'them' being far wiser and above all that.

Just keep doing what you need to do, with resolve, learning, practicing, and with cross-training of those close to you.
Let me say that again:
Just keep doing what you need to do, with resolve, learning, practicing, and with cross-training of those close to you.

Happy trails, scenic or otherwise.
8)
Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on November 07, 2012, 04:21:50 pm
Well if we're hell bent for leather...why not just double down?

I much prefer we have the courage of our convictions - I don't mind someone saying they're fascist or socialist - but I have a MAJOR problem when you buy voters WITH my money - taking credit for what I earned AND taking credit for giving it away (to the right people).

I despise employing the definition, while running from the word.

Doesn't matter as we're heading to the financial cliff with our foot firmly on the gas pedal....anyway.

yay.

I am glad I began to prepare for the worst two years ago - I think Im going to need it.

...even though I still don't feel it's enough - it's far better than the position I was in.

And Im looking for a "retreat" out west - Hey Luck, how's Nebraska this time of year?
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: raybiker73 on November 07, 2012, 05:13:32 pm
Quote from: White Tiger on November 07, 2012, 04:21:50 pm
Well if we're hell bent for leather...why not just double down?


Doesn't matter as we're heading to the financial cliff with our foot firmly on the gas pedal....anyway.


I am glad I began to prepare for the worst two years ago - I think Im going to need it.



All talk of domestic terrorist classifications aside (because it doesn't do anybody any good either way), this raises a good question. It could be pretty easily argued that, no matter who won the election, we're headed for economic hard times. Even if the other candidate had won, it's not like we'd have done a 180 overnight - we still have a very, very big elephant in the room and it's got "Economic Collapse" painted on its flanks. So, now that the political course is set for good or for ill, and since we agree that hard times are ahead or we wouldn't be at a prepper website in the first place... what do we do first?

Assuming that most all of us are at at least a basic level of prepping, where do we as individuals and families now focus our efforts? Are food stocks the primary concern now? Gold? Debt reduction? Defense? Even more relevant, since this *is* a radio website, how can we use our communications resources to help ourselves, and each other?

If today, Election Day +1, you were to make a list, what would be at the top?

For me, radio is actually at the top of the list. My food/defense/shelter preps are in place, and even though they're not complete, they'll never be complete. The idea is to be on a path to self-sufficiency in those areas, and I am. In a worst-case SHTF scenario, though, that radio on my table is going to be my connection to the world. I need to make sure that I can power it and use it, and even more importantly, I need to make sure that I can fix it if I break it.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: KC9TNH on November 07, 2012, 06:10:20 pm
raybiker73 is spot on. As I said, both trails led to the same place. The only reason I mention categories is because they do exist - take it to the bank. But, that once acknowledged, pick your elephant (economic, domestic tranquility, natural disaster) and let that inform what you do, rather than just how the elephant perceives you.

For those not yet licensed, do so. Even w/o equipment you could help setup for a field day in a club and get some airtime from a control operator who is. You may even find a deal on some equipment that may not be of importance to another operator. If all you can afford for awhile is a Chinese dual-band h/t, go for it and get searching for your repeaters in a larger area than you might normally think about in case you have to move.

Even if you can't get into HF yet, the APPROACH to fleshing out what you need doesn't have to stop. Sit down and answer some simple questions, like:


Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on November 07, 2012, 06:27:12 pm
HF can be as cheap as a Chinese HT. It does involve learning Morse code however, but I would suggest any Ham to do that anyway...

Gil.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: KC9TNH on November 07, 2012, 06:37:19 pm
Quote from: gil on November 07, 2012, 06:27:12 pm
HF can be as cheap as a Chinese HT. It does involve learning Morse code however, but I would suggest any Ham to do that anyway...

Gil.
Quite true in that sense. It still depends on what the actual need is in my $.02 view, devalued yesterday in terms of the drachma.

Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on November 07, 2012, 06:52:58 pm
Well, given the choice between a 2m HT or a CW HF radio, I'd take the later any day...

Gil.
Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on November 07, 2012, 07:46:05 pm
Excellent post Ray - I agree with you. if the other guy had won, he promised to fire the fed president...or at least slow him down...the economy would have - in the short term - tanked. Interest rates probably would shoot up at the very least.

I do think being able to make contact, and being self-sufficient in generating enough power TO communicate, would be very key to communication. I really do think it could be a necessary/valuable skill, but it will require power.

...I know I havesome food, but I need to learn to depend on what I grow...so I will need to acquire that knowledge, because I know next to nothing about gardening...but my Dad does.

It is essential to the acquire types of skill you think you will need...and then something exceptional...radio is that for me,
Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on November 07, 2012, 08:56:04 pm
What I have become stunned by....I've spent so much time getting my license, working with others to attain the knowledge to pass the test, working to understand the why's and wherefore's of learning the different types of radio, the frequencies, which one's I am drawn to...what types of antenna's I need for the radio I've chosen, the practicality of setting up said antenna's...postmortem on equipment failures...(i.e., what I did/planned wrong)...

...when just yesterday, while trying to arrange a contact with Gil, to try out my new 2m Chinese HT...he asked me to go to a frequency with "no tone"...and I had no idea what he was talking about...

I realized I'm completely ignorant of HOW to operate!?

I mean, calling CQ is easy...but how did I miss "tone"?

...Sheesh, do I have a LOT to learn!
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on November 07, 2012, 09:16:36 pm
The tone thing is fairly simple once you learn about it. A repeater receives on one frequency and transmits on another. The displayed frequency on your HT is the listening frequency. The frequency you will transmit on is offset, usually by 600kHz above or below the listening frequency. So, for example the Verna repeater on 145.43: The repeater listens on 144.830, so you need to transmit on that frequency. Usually, HTs do that automatically. On your IC-271A, you press +DUPLEX or -DUPLEX, in this case, minus.

Now the tone: Some repeaters require a tone to trigger the transmitting. That's because you don't want them to transmit on band noise, interferences, etc. So, your radio needs to transmit a sub-audible tone mixed in with your audio. You can't hear it but the repeater does and starts transmitting when it receives a transmission containing a tone. I don't know how to set tones on your HT, but with the 271A, you need to enter a code for the correct frequency (100Hz for Verna). There is a table and instructions in the manual. Then you press the tone key to turn the tone on.

When I mentioned the 146.640 repeater, which should be close to you, this one has no tone requirement. So, you either just press -DUPLEX on the 271A or just set the frequency to 146.640 on your HT, and hopefully it will deduce the offset automatically (my FT-270R does it). If not, the manual should tell you how to set that up.

I hope this helps  :)

HF is simpler!

Funny thing is, some people don't even know how to use simplex anymore on VHF!

Gil.
Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on November 07, 2012, 10:30:47 pm
I appreciate that Gil, it is a bit embarrassing, but that is NOT why I didn't say anything at the time...I figured the HT would handle it.

Not only does that sound lame as I say it, but I realize that the HT probably can do it. Due to my eagerness (and maybe some hubris, due to thinking passing tests is some kind of substitute for experience) to test the equipment without reading the instruction manual (which I have begun to do)! I can state that unlike the horror stories of early models, this one seems to be written fairly well.

I feel safe enough here to be completely honest, because I want to learn. It's why I became a member here, I expect to be embarrassed - because this is NOT my strong suit, I am theleast technical guy I know - but it is something I feel so strongly about, that Im willing to endure looking like the idiot in the room (not that anyone here has ever made me feel that way - just my head trash). I really think being able to communicate and send messages will be incredibly necessary in the near future.

So, I joined ARRL, and ordered the "ARRL Operating Manual"...

...and I'll probably be asking some NEW questions of you guys soon.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on November 07, 2012, 10:35:28 pm
Don't beat yourself up Tim, nothing to be embarrassed about.
Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on November 08, 2012, 12:23:12 am
Like I said Gil, it's my head trash, everyone here has been very helpful, prior to that I was wearing Luck WA4STO out with questions...but he's pretty good at the elmering thing. Actually, Luck introduced me to this forum, and along with all the help he's given, the members here have been very good about helping and answering questions.

When I think about it - I've come a long way from thinking that all I needed was to add a HF radio in my preps ([/i]"...10m mobile unit, check...antenna...already have one on the car, check..."), waaayyy back in August (when I began seriously thinking about the benefits of proper training), then studying for the exam in September, and taking and passing the test in early October - it really has been a bit of a whirlwind...

..I guess I always was the one in the backseat that kept asking if we were "there" yet...

Never felt so dumb as when I figured out that I still didn't know, what I didn't know...regarding ham radio...yesterday.

Like the man told me years ago - there is a limit to how smart you can be...but NO limit on how dumb you can be!
Title: I Believe that Wisdom...
Post by: RadioRay on November 08, 2012, 12:46:27 am
 ... begins when we realize that we have so much to learn and that we cannot learn it all in this phase of our existance.


I look forward to eternity.



>Ray


Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on November 08, 2012, 05:01:04 am
RadioRay - kinda hit me the same way. While discussing the outcome of the election - I told my wife & son (attending university from home) that it struck me - that we're at the "back of the book"...(so to speak), and we're living through the last chapter at the back of the book...
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: WA4STO on November 08, 2012, 08:41:15 am
Quote from: White Tiger on November 08, 2012, 12:23:12 am
Never felt so dumb as when I figured out that I still didn't know, what I didn't know.



Heh, it gets worse.  Much worse.

42 freakin' years into this stuff and I still get confused as to why I don't know this or that about amateur radio.

It's all everybody else's fault, ya see.  If they didn't keep designing and building these fabulous pieces of equipment and downright miraculous chunks of code, I'd still know everything.  Hmmm...

73 de WA4STO
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: KC9TNH on November 08, 2012, 06:15:52 pm
Quote from: gil on November 07, 2012, 10:35:28 pm
Don't beat yourself up Tim, nothing to be embarrassed about.
Bingo. White Tiger it's just learnin'. You would have enjoyed me being "slick" once my latest h/t arrived, having already scoped out every repeater & offset everywhere I might travel (including surrounding states) including the UHF WINET stuff that works really well for long distances up & down the state's highways, and including some 'other' frequencies that are part of a scan routine. When it got here, I just hooked it up to the Commander software and - voila' ! - nothing on my local monster 2m repeater. The 817 worked, the scanner was workin' - Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over!!!
:o
Apparently my first attack of lysdexia (that's my story & I'm stickin' to it) decided to make its first appearance by having me put all xmit freqs in the s/w receive column and vice versa for the recv.

G I G O.
As Bugs would say, "oh, Brudder."
::)
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: Frosty on November 11, 2012, 10:00:06 am
Whether or not Soldier X is telling the truth, it's a sure bet that preppers/survivalists/III percenters are getting flagged as potential domestic terrorists based on their activities (online and off). 

If you see something, say something:
http://publicintelligence.net/fbi-suspicious-activity-reporting-flyers/

You might be a terrorist if:
http://usawatchdog.com/when-honest-americans-are-cast-as-criminals/

Tracking online activities:
http://texaspreppersnetwork.blogspot.com/2009/03/must-read-from-urban-survival-silently.html

Tracking your travel and purchases:
http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/10/fbi-data-mining-programs-resurrect-total-information-awareness/
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13739_3-9812473-46.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,59262,00.html

So it's just a question of how, and under what circumstances, they might act on the information they already have. 

Would love to see how different activities are scored, and which combinations result in your profile getting singled out for further review.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: WA4STO on November 11, 2012, 11:09:59 am
Quote from: Frosty on November 11, 2012, 10:00:06 am

Would love to see how different activities are scored, and which combinations result in your profile getting singled out for further review.


Following the long-established methodology inherent in the policy of "they're all guilty unless by some incredible luck, they're proven innocent", I would submit that it's not been a matter of having your profile singled out. 

Consider:  now that the fusion centers as well as the mega-insane capabilities of the Utah NSA center keep all data on you forever, it's a simple matter for the lowly deputy to put in a query for your name/SSN/whatever just to see what comes back. 

"Oh, lookie here!  Frosty had a Part 97 violation back in 1993.  He absolutely failed to identify his ham radio station until the eleventh minute into the QSO.  Surely he's a terrorist"

Or ... there's a video of him speeding on the Jersey Turnpike back in 2001.  He must have been planning for 9/11 of that year. 

And when it's time to go to court, the whole topic of 'discovery' is out the window.  What once was an unclassified speeding ticket has now become "Ah, yerhonner, we can't tell even YOU about the source of this evidence against the guilty, I mean the accursed, cuz it's now classified and the guys at NSA won't release the classification until JFK's great grandkids have been gone for fifty or so years.  Ergo (lawyer talk?) you must admit the evidence but we won't tell ya anything about it, except to say that he's a terrorist.  I mean, just look at the huge amount of crud we have against the accursed.  Guilty, I say, guilty as any ham radio prepper could ever be.  So there, yerhonner"

Everything's up for grabs now.  Pity we're not the ones doing the grabbing.

73 de Luck, WA4STO
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: RadioRay on November 11, 2012, 12:01:53 pm

The reason that be have a million obscure "laws" is so that everyone is guilty of something.  It makes tyrany so much easier.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: KC9TNH on November 11, 2012, 02:44:52 pm
Quote from: RadioRay on November 11, 2012, 12:01:53 pm

The reason that be have a million obscure "laws" is so that everyone is guilty of something.  It makes tyrany so much easier.
Quite so. (BTW, most rank & file officers hate that stuff because they get to try to remember 437 "qualifiers" that change the nature of an offense.)

Having worked in the "belly of the beast" and once gotten myself invited (huh, who?) to a conference on some of these things after the stand-up of the fusion centers by Big Sis I got an interesting window into that stuff while sitting next to a partner in crime, an Originalist-thinking JAG officer I knew. The presenter covered all their "see something say something" stuff - the scenario at the time cited for the validity was the Times Square cabbie who did - and mentioned with some pride that if you see something & say something YOU, the peasant, would get that something of great value into the great database in the sky and really smart people would check it out.

I mentioned at coffee break before Q&A to my barrister friend that sure seemed like a good way to jam up someone you didn't like. (Frankly it reminded me of "block minders" in the old DDR.)

The question posed (jointly) by my legal eagle buddy & I was, "having run this  so-called 'lead' to ground and found it wanting of any merit whatsoever, what is the mechanism by which you purge this item from your database?"

Silence - first with glares at us for asking such an impertinent question, then at the presenters who, hmmm, really need to give an answer because the audience had now had at least 7 seconds to think about it.

Lottery of the day:  Guess their answer.
HINT:  All answers are correct except the one that says it will be immediately expunged.

I wish this were a faerie tale but you need to know about me that I save my tinfoil for baked potatoes.
;D
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: RadioRay on November 11, 2012, 03:14:13 pm
The More People Change, the more they stay the same. We do the same silly things that were in style 2 millenia ago.

I was reading through a bit about the life of Cicero in ancient Rome. At the time, there was a list of the enemies of the Emperor. Here's the deal:

#2.  Put that 'somebody's' name on the list.  (Evidence not required)
#3.  Receive YOUR reward which is taken from part of their property, or get it ALL for an amazingly low price.


You ask 'Where is #1?" .  Oh, that's the easy part:

#1. Find somebody with 'stuff' nicer than yours. It's helpful but not essential to not like them and sometimes better for YOU if you DO like them, because it's all the more convincing.

Now, Cicero was brilliant, well liked by the people, upwardly mobile and feared by many in the political elite. He ALSO had a great family farm in an upscale neighborhood and lot's of other 'cool stuff'. Wonder what Cicero was concerned about happening to him?  Yes - The List - - -

Politicians have not changed one iota - except maybe that they don't need to be nearly as intelligent or careful. At least in Cicero's day, even an Emporer could find himself torn apart by a mob, or stabbed to death on the way to work by a bunch of other politicians during the ides of March.  Today - politicians have it WAY too easy!


Et Tu Brute?


>de RadioRay ..._ ._


Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on November 13, 2012, 02:41:21 am
I noted with only mild surprise...that 20 states have already filed petitions of secession...with Texas being the first to reach the minimum number of signatures...
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: KC9TNH on November 13, 2012, 05:39:39 am
Quote from: White Tiger on November 13, 2012, 02:41:21 am
I noted with only mild surprise...that 20 states have already filed petitions of secession...with Texas being the first to reach the minimum number of signatures...
Yep, I saw that Texas one. I think it's mostly a fad, and a gesture of outrage. Probably won't fly in most states as soon as they take a hard look at what kind of $$$ they're complicit in taking from the Fed.

Start with being on the hook for infrastructure. If your roads are more dangerous than running the Baja 1000 as soon as people cross into your state there won't be the attraction for either commerce or tourism, both needed. Lincoln knew how to put down a peaceful secession; that lesson has probably not been totally lost...
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: KC5OTL on November 13, 2012, 11:22:31 am
Quote from: KC9TNH on November 13, 2012, 05:39:39 am
Quote from: White Tiger on November 13, 2012, 02:41:21 am
Start with being on the hook for infrastructure. If your roads are more dangerous than running the Baja 1000 as soon as people cross into your state there won't be the attraction for either commerce or tourism, both needed.


I venture to say that interstate transportation will be moot, anyway.  I see that state borders will be locked down to such a point that, only official and authorized vehicles will be allowed to cross state lines.  The surfs will be required to show an official permit to leave the state.

For someone like me who lives in Ohio and work in Kentucky, it would mean that I would have to go through a check point twice a day at I-275 and Kellogg Ave.  That will force me to find a job, probably sweeping floors or flipping hamburgers for my income as, I live out in the country and there isn't a single job that could support my current income needs.

Actually, TSA check points at state lines would be a line that I am not willing to cross and so, I would go Galt within a few days of interstate lock-down.

If you think I'm wearing an Aluminum foil party hat, roving TSA check points have been taking place in Tennessee for more than two years.  Right now they are only aimed at commercial transportation but this is the acclamation for what is to come in the not-too-distant future.

And another thing, there have been Black, unmarked Helicopters filled with armed military flying over my area for a couple of years, now.  One time, I was on my back deck and one came over the tree line and hovered about 100 feet our and observed me for about 5 minutes.  I was working on my solar power generator, at the time.  I waved at them and one of them pointed down at me and about 30 seconds later they flew on, resuming their search pattern of the area.

We are not a free people anymore.  The Gestapo has arrived and we are being observed, marked, acclimated and will soon be intimidated by this illegitimate regime running things!
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: KC9TNH on November 13, 2012, 02:31:35 pm
Quote from: KC5OTL on November 13, 2012, 11:22:31 amActually, TSA check points at state lines would be a line that I am not willing to cross and so, I would go Galt within a few days of interstate lock-down.
Yep, they're firmly entrenched like the worst tick now that the recently concluded their full-blown negotiated agreement with the American Federation of Government Employees - and you can bet the tribute-loving (read, insatiable appetite for money, Workers of the World Unite) AFGE will be looking out for them. (Which judging by their much-filmed, recorded, and documented incompetence they will need.)

So, the motor-carrier division of a state's highway patrol isn't capable of taking care of commercial vehicle traffic? Oh, wait.  That's right, they're not owned by the Fed.

Anyone have in place at least 1 other person in their close circle/tribe with whom they could leverage an opportunity, using comms (you pick, blank sheet of paper), to practice seeing without being seen? Overwatch on a checkpoint?  Noting of patterns and habits?  Just for the exercise. When you need it, it won't come to you in a dream you'll need to have thought about it and trained it with someone.

Theoretical moonshinin' but with a better C2 plan.
:)
Title: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: White Tiger on November 14, 2012, 01:47:16 am
Not interested in crossing any such lines either...it's why I may be changing the destination of my BOL. Was planning to cross a couple of state lines, now I think getting to a more secure location should be no more than a total of a few hours.

Plans should yield to improving intelligence.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on January 28, 2013, 11:43:56 am
I received MacPherson?s ?Battle Cry of Freedom? from Amazon and started reading... Great book! Thanks again for the suggestion.

Gil.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: Geek on February 11, 2013, 12:24:13 pm
You might also enjoy "The Real Lincoln" by Thomas J. Dilorenzo.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: Archangel320420 on September 10, 2013, 06:54:19 pm
I simply am very impressed with this thread. The discussion was marvelous. We would be a lot better off if every american discussed these issues instead of watching pro football and knowing all the player's stats. Nothing wrong with that if you already also know some of the things in this thread.

By the way, someone mentioned Hamilton, I found out not only was Hamilton aide de camp to General Washington during the war but he requested combat and got it in the form of a night bayonet attack on a British position at Yorktown? He led the attack and ordered his men to not load their muskets because he didn't want to spoil the surprise with a musket going off by mistake during the charge. Talk about gutsie! He always seemed like a little squeak of a guy to me. Haaa Boy was I wrong.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on September 10, 2013, 07:37:10 pm
Hello,

I finished MacPherson's "Battle Cry of Freedom." Excellent book. Now if someone could suggest me a great one on the Independance War? Thanks.

Gil.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: raybiker73 on September 10, 2013, 07:44:24 pm
I figured you'd like "Battle Cry of Freedom." If you want more Civil War reading about anything specific, I can point you in the right direction.

As far as the Revolutionary War, the best "overview" book is a relatively short volume by Robert Sobel called "The American Revolution." For something a bit more in-depth, try "George Washington's War" by Robert Leckie. It is basically the Rev War version of "Battle Cry of Freedom." If you read it, I'd put David McCollough's "1776" and Joseph Plum Martin's "Narrative of a Revolutionary Soldier: Yankee Doodle Dandy" on the list. Martin's book is a first-person account from an enlisted man who was with Washington's army the whole way to Yorktown. It is to Revolutionary War reading what "Hard Tack and Coffee" and "Company Aytch" are to Civil War reading. I highly highly recommend it.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on September 10, 2013, 07:48:42 pm
QuoteGeorge Washington's War" by Robert Leckie.


Thanks, I'm a sucker for big books  ::)

As far as the Civil War, I'd like something more tactical than political, and more on the South side.

Thanks!

Gil.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: RichardSinFWTX on September 10, 2013, 08:08:16 pm
Ahhhh, so Gil's a student of the War of Northern Aggression?! 

My hat's off to ya, suh!   8)
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on September 10, 2013, 08:26:12 pm
Well, except for slavery, I can't help but take the South's side.. I didn't know much about the politics of the conflict before developing an interest for it... I can say however that one of my favorite author is Ayn Rand; no surprise then. Speaking of history books, a good one I am reading right now is "The Black Count" by Tom Reiss, which is the story of Alexander Dumas' father, who was half black and a general in the French army in the 1790s. He was an exceptional soldier and would charge whole groups of ennemies by himself on his horse, armed with a saber and a pair of (single-shot) pistols. He was of course a contemporary of Lafayette, who as you all know came over here to kick British asses.. So, Alexander Dumas (the father), originally from Saint Domingue (Haiti) was a nobleman, general, and married to a French woman. At the same time blacks were picking cotton in the fields. It's not all rosy on the French side however, as although they didn't have slaves in France and anyone could become anybody, French planters did use slaves in Saint Domingue (i.e. Dumas' mother). Dumas also went to Egypt with Napoleon. He didn't like the guy. His son took him as an inspiration when he wrote "The Count of Monte Cristo." Anyway, I digress... Reading about history certainly helps understand current political scheeming...

Gil.

Guess where the attached photo was taken and who's in it?
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: RichardSinFWTX on September 10, 2013, 08:37:12 pm
Slavery was dying under it's own weight.  The War of Northern Aggression was about the rights of the states.  IMHO, not trying to start another war.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on September 10, 2013, 08:41:22 pm
QuoteSlavery was dying under it's own weight.  The War of Northern Aggression was about the rights of the states.  IMHO, not trying to start another war.


Oh I agree. Slavery was part of it, but certainly not the only reason. As if any was ever started to save or liberate people...  ::)

Today it seems we have three zones... The West Coast, the East Coast, and the rest of us good guys...  ;)
That said it's a bit mixed of course, but ya'll get my meaning...

Gil.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: RichardSinFWTX on September 10, 2013, 08:43:23 pm
I fancy it more the Left Coast, the damn Yankees and the rest of us.  :)

Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: raybiker73 on September 10, 2013, 09:03:06 pm
Quote from: gil on September 10, 2013, 07:48:42 pm
QuoteGeorge Washington's War" by Robert Leckie.


Thanks, I'm a sucker for big books  ::)

As far as the Civil War, I'd like something more tactical than political, and more on the South side.

Thanks!

Gil.


In that case, look for just about anything by Stephen Sears. I'd recommend starting with "To the Gates of Richmond: The Peninsula Campaign." It's a good look at the tactical blunders made by McClellan, and it does a really good job of getting into the heads of the Confederate commanders as well. This was the period of time when Lee took over command of the Army of Northern Virginia, and it really takes a good look at those crucial first days of Lee's command. Another good one from Sears is "Landscape Turned Red." It's a detailed (and horrifying) blow-by-blow account of Antietam. I read it because I was a reenactor in the 66th Ohio Vol. Infantry, and the original 66th was on the field near the Dunker Church at Antietam. Brutal fighting at Antietam.

If you want to look towards Gettysburg, there are too many choices to list. The best would probably be "Stars in their Courses" by Shelby Foote. It's a play by play of the entire battle of Gettysburg, from Buford's holding action the whole way to Meade's decision to not follow Lee into Maryland. It's an excerpt from the 2nd volume of Footes "Civil War" series, and goes about 200 pages.

Another great Gettysburg book that gets into VERY minute detail is "Struggle for the Bliss Farm." It looks at one very small, very specific facet of the battle during July 2nd and into the 3rd. Since it deals with such a small slice of the pie, it gets into exhaustive detail. Where in most books you'd read something like, "Doubleday's Corps moved into place on the east, next to Hancock's Corps," this book gets down to the equivalent of, "Dave was behind the big oak tree, while Bill and George were hunkered down behind the fence." It's a great little book that almost nobody ever reads. I love it.

Actually, if you liked "Battle Cry of Freedom," you should just go all-out and read Shelby Foote's 3-volume set "The Civil War." It's the complete package, from north to south to east to west to the ocean to the rivers to the aftermath. The whole series will get you about 2700 pages of awesomeness.

Now I'm all wound up. Gotta go read some Civil War.  :D
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on September 10, 2013, 09:11:47 pm
Thanks Ray, much appreciated!

Gil.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: KK0G on September 10, 2013, 09:16:09 pm
Now we're onto must read books huh? Probably many here have already read them but just in case you haven't, the following should be required reading for all citizens:


"Enemies Foreign and Domestic" - 3 novel trilogy by Matt Bracken
"Castigo Cay" - by Matt Bracken
"Unintended Consequences" - by John Ross


I can not recommend these books highly enough.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on September 10, 2013, 09:18:46 pm
I've read two of those five...
Gil.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: KK0G on September 10, 2013, 09:21:55 pm
Quote from: gil on September 10, 2013, 09:18:46 pm
I've read two of those five...
Gil.



Looks like you've got some reading to do 8)
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: Quietus on September 10, 2013, 09:57:28 pm
I second the choice of Shelby Foote's three-volume set as recommended just above by raybiker73.  Foote has been maybe the best writer to chronicle the whole conflict.  His writing flows as prose.  Some years back during a TV series on that war, there was numerous interviews with Foote.  They were a joy to watch, a gentleman talking about what he knew better than most anyone.
 
Foote's trilogy took some years to write; copywright dates are from 1958 for the first volume, to 1974 for the third.  I think he may have been a company-grade redleg officer during WW2. 
 
Gil, if you are looking for something from the southern perspective:  read Shrouds of Glory by Winston Groom (Forrest Gump author).  The book is about a lesser-known campaign waged by the south after Atlanta had been lost.  Intent was to do a left hook out of lost Atlanta and capture Nashville, while cutting off Sherman's sources of supply.  The campaign didn't go real well.  Hood's army got to the outskirts of Nashville during Dec 1864 just about as Sherman's was reaching the Georgia coast at Savannah,sans supplies since Sherman provided/looted as he went.  Oops.  And then Hood's army got driven off from Nashville's outskirts, badly.  It had gone up to Nashville just as badly.  The attack into Franklin TN which lost twelve generals for the confederacy, may have been a punishing action for his army on the part of Hood, and he was using some decent drugs due to wound and amputation status at the time.
 
Trace Adkins' song that plays in commercials asking for money for current wounded vets, begins with the singer saying that he was at Nashville.  He got pounded there by Hood.  In that book, there is a quote from a contemporary about how Hood wanted to forge an axe of the Army of Tennessee.  He got blunted, so the forging got to be a froe.  In the end, it was a wedge.
 
Anyway, good book, I've given it off but intend to go to the library and read it again.  Gil, it will fulfill your wish for the tactical side of a narrative.  Small campaign, big book.  And it will bring in the human side of failed leadership:  one army passing another fifty yards away in the night, while leadership was having a soiree with the locals.  Punishment soon after at Franklin.  And all within the shadow of leadership coming from primitive painkillers.
 
ETA while starting to post:  Well eff me.  Maybe there should be a suggested reading list here where people can put out what they think a RadioPrepper sort of a person ought to get his mind around.  There's a person on the training side of life's equation, who says that ham radio operators will be among the first to rat you out to the proper authorities (that would, of course, be right behind your family and close neighbors.)  I like the concept.  What do people here recommend for a reading list?  I vote for books seconded by people who know American history.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on September 10, 2013, 10:03:41 pm
Good idea, better start a new thread...
Gil.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: RichardSinFWTX on September 10, 2013, 10:15:57 pm
Quote from: Quietus on September 10, 2013, 09:57:28 pmTrace Adkins' song that plays in commercials asking for money for current wounded vets, begins with the singer saying that he was at Nashville.  He got pounded there by Hood.  In that book, there is a quote from a contemporary about how Hood wanted to forge an axe of the Army of Tennessee.  He got blunted, so the forging got to be a froe.  In the end, it was a wedge....
 


The song is called "Til the Last Shot's Fired".....GREAT song!  If you don't shed a tear listening to it, you're not human!  :)
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: Geek on September 10, 2013, 10:25:06 pm
Quote from: KK0G on September 10, 2013, 09:21:55 pm
Quote from: gil on September 10, 2013, 09:18:46 pm
I've read two of those five...
Gil.



Looks like you've got some reading to do 8)


I've read all but Unintended Consequences and that one is on my To Do list already.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: Archangel320420 on September 10, 2013, 10:36:16 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LuLvlp1Pao
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: Quietus on September 10, 2013, 10:46:52 pm
Quote from: gil on September 10, 2013, 10:03:41 pm
Good idea, better start a new thread...
Gil.

 
Fine idea sir.  As an edumacation for people newer into the struggle against Marxism, I'd have to recommend that the War Between the States books be kept on the back burner, since there's probably more pressing subjects.

KKOG's recommendations of Bracken's works are spot on.  If buying or choosing only one of the three, choose the third of Brackens trilogy on Enemies.  That book brings it home, especially to people who live in the south.
 
I've read the other two of Bracken's first two, and can pass on them as being important for a list of books to read.  Of course, once you've read the third, you will want to read the other two.
 
Castigo Key, I could pass on as a recommended read, it's more of a pleasurable one.
 
KKOG's recommendation of John Shaw's Unintended Consequences cannot be disputed.  Everybody needs to read that book, it's from the Clinton era and tells how one person and his buds foil the bad people.  The book is written in small segments that start more than a hundred years ago.  It is easy to pick up at the last place you put it down. I ordered one when it first came out, and found another for cheap.  Each of them have been kept in circulation within my circle.  And I've gotten both of them back, which may say something about the better folks
 
Anybody who thinks currently that he is a rational person, has to have gotten Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged under his belt.  It is a hard slog, but worthwhile.  As is most anything else that she has written.  I recall sitting on M1956 web gear in the mountains of southern Utah a generation or so ago, diving into my pack while waiting for a helicopter to come take me up the line.  What generally came out of the pack, was an Ayn Rand paperback of essays.
 
Cheers, Gil, on your reading list solicitations.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: KC9TNH on September 10, 2013, 11:05:24 pm
Another vote for a "recommended reading list" type thread or sticky, extracting the relevant portions of this one as a start perhaps. Thanks archangel for reading & resurrecting - threads do morph here from time to time. In this case it provides the excuse to go out and snag something(s) that get the $25 free shipping from Amazon, so I will be all over Shrouds of Glory. The recommendation coming from someone who seems to have a keen eye for terrain no matter where he treds, I'll snag it. Winters are long up here sometimes, so might have to get the Shelby Foote trilogy as well.

Have read Bracken's other books less Castigo Cay, which just arrived and I'll read over time. Matt was waiting for some blank ones to arrive so he could autograph it for me & turns out he did so on my birthday.

Pleasant the way this thread has turned out.
;)

Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on September 10, 2013, 11:38:34 pm
Great suggestions guys! I am still battling Marxism at my local coffee shop  :o Lots of students there who think they understand. But I stand of the shoulders of great people (who said that again?) who have put in words what I have always felt and provide me with arguments that can't be refuted. So, I piss off a lot of people ;D Only a couple days ago one of those guts was bloating that he was stealing from the grocery store. I said "I hope you get arrested." and gave him a lecture. What an idiot. Reading Ayn Rand really made me understand that there are two kinds of people: the producers and the leaches. I remember watching a survival show wiith a dozen people dropped in the Alaskan wilderness. Half of them worked their asses off, the others sat down complaining.. Had I been there it would have made great reality TV  :o "No, I'm not sharing that rabbit! What have you done today?" Hehehe. These days I let things slide more.. I am getting tired of explaining how the world works to a bunch of morons. I don't know it all, but darn, once you look at it from the right point of view, it all makes sense. There is no going back after that. Nowhere else than in this country has it been expressed better and put down on paper as law. Unfortunately, evil is at work to change that. I can only suspect the next decade will be fairly "interesting..." Me, well, the winters in Idaho don't look so unpleasant anymore.. I've only been there in the summer, but I'm starting to think... I also liked Montana, Wyomimg and Southern Utah. Florida is not a good survival state: No way out but up, one highway per coast.. Pretty much sea level. Not much food available. Not much of anything... Going on a tangent again  ;)

Gil.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: raybiker73 on September 11, 2013, 12:40:35 am
If we're going for straight-up individual liberty, possibly the best book on the topic isn't philosophy or drama, but science fiction. Everyone should be required to read "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" by Robert Heinlein. It's one of my favorite books of all time, and an example of libertarian fiction at its finest. The unabridged Audible version is also fantastic, because the narrator does a wonderful job with the voices. Five stars, two thumbs up, and whatever else you can come up with. Read this book.

If you're into more pulpy sci-fi, check out "The Probability Broach" by L. Neil Smith. It, and the rest of the North American Confederacy series, are all very fun reads.


EDIT: typo
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: Geek on September 11, 2013, 07:31:27 am
If non-fiction qualifies "Liberty Amendments" by Mark Levin.
Title: Blossomed reading list
Post by: KC9TNH on September 11, 2013, 07:56:15 am
The previously mentioned Heinlein book is a good read. For those who are pre- Civil War history buffs I can recommend American Insurgents, American Patriots by T.H. Breen. Primarily deals with events leading up to the reckoning of Lexington-Concord and what Americans (as they began to call themselves) did in reaction to intolerable acts from the throne, the difficult position a somewhat pitiable General Gage was put into by his monarch, and local (local, local, local) actions to either sway or tar & feather the miscreants in their midst. (Imagine if there'd been a CW net up & down the coast, folks wouldn't have waited for parchments & newspapers & writings of their ministers.)

Well told by a true historian. It's notable to me for a couple of things still relevant. First, it is a fine exploration into the fact that - at the time - the American "tipping point" before impolite action against tyrants was a heavy weight to reach; the decision to go to guns was made heavily and with much trepidation until the opening volley. Second, the end-notes are very thorough and will, by themselves, perhaps spawn a whole 'nuther reading list on that topic. It's also readable in snippets for those who keep a nightstand read around next to the latest action thriller.

We should keep the recommendations going - on whatever topic - if for no other reason than KK0G will need breaks during the winter while he studies & saves to slip the surly bonds of Earth. Likely, regardless of the book's subject, we're likely to find some similarities that tell us about ourselves as well.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: Archangel320420 on September 11, 2013, 02:29:07 pm
Hey Gil,

Keep up the good work teaching how bad MARX is. I tell any Lib/progressive/commiePinko/socialist/facist I come across that they are all the same. They want to tell you what to think, what to read, who to love, who to hate, how to raise your children, how much you can earn, what to do with your own property & buisness, how often to flush the toilet, how much poo poo paper you can use, etc. And they want to use the force of the government to make you do things their way. They are ALL the SAME. Ying/Yang  Same/same.

This is all contrary to the American way of life and the US. Constitution which limits government and gives liberty and freedom to the individual. They are fond of calling me a conservatives a "Nazi", when it is just the other way around. Some folks just have never thought about this and they really think a little socialism is a good thang. They really do not know until you tell them. Keep up the teaching, Gil. It helps but watch your blood pressure.  :)
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: KC9TNH on September 25, 2013, 08:35:38 pm
Quote from: KC9TNH on September 10, 2013, 11:05:24 pmIn this case it provides the excuse to go out and snag something(s) that get the $25 free shipping from Amazon, so I will be all over Shrouds of Glory. The recommendation coming from someone who seems to have a keen eye for terrain no matter where he treds, I'll snag it. Winters are long up here sometimes....
Am as impatient as KK0G, couldn't wait for the snow to fly. If you enjoy a tactical treatment of events during the War of Northern Aggression - factual, but very well done in a storyteller kind of flow - Shrouds of Glory is worth every penny.  Almost couldn't put it down till I walked down the street while waiting for some car maintenance & tire quote and another '62 Strat caught my eye...

A fine recommendation to our list.
Title: Re: Preppers to be treated as terrorists
Post by: gil on September 25, 2013, 08:38:19 pm
QuoteShrouds of Glory


Thanks Wes!

Gil.