Radio Preppers

General Category => New To Radio => Topic started by: Geek on July 18, 2013, 09:29:54 PM

Title: 10m radios
Post by: Geek on July 18, 2013, 09:29:54 PM
I am seeing ads for 10m radios, that also seem to have CB channels built in.  Sounds handy for the car.  What are the pros and cons?
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: gil on July 18, 2013, 10:19:16 PM
They are illegal as hell... Only con I can think of.

Gil.
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: KK0G on July 18, 2013, 10:26:19 PM
They are illegal as hell... Only con I can think of.

Gil.

And they're also junk in my opinion.
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: gil on July 18, 2013, 10:35:42 PM
Quote
And they're also junk in my opinion.

These radios are basically CBs which have been extended to cover more channels. They are still channelized, so not really usable on Ham bands, on top of being illegal. It is actually illegal to have one on the premises.. I wouldn't risk losing my license having one of those in my house!

Gil.
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: WA4STO on July 18, 2013, 10:49:08 PM
I am seeing ads for 10m radios, that also seem to have CB channels built in.  Sounds handy for the car.  What are the pros and cons?

Wise of you to ask, Geek.  Here's a few pros and cons that I'm aware of:

1.  Anybody can have one in the car.  No law against having one to listen on.

2.  If you're a licensed radio amateur, you can also transmit on it, provided that you're operating on the licensed amateur radio frequencies that you hold a license for.

3.  They are not type accepted by the FCC, meaning that it's contrary to the regulations to key the microphone and/or transmitter by anybody, licensed or not, outside of the Part 97 frequencies.

4.  Ditto for anybody in the business of selling them commercially.  No Type-acceptance; huge fines for getting caught selling them, regardless of whether the customer is a licensed amateur or not.

One interesting point about all this is that I have two of them.  Had 'em given to me some years back and they're just sitting here.  I've had them both out on loan to various "Elmerees" but that frequency range is so very poor that they all quickly lost interest and sent them back to me.  As for me, I don't do voice modes anyway.

Since I'm not in the business of selling radios, I'm free to sell them as I wish, particularly to an already-licensed radio amateur. 

Now and then I get thinking about networking them together on Pactor, WINMOR, or maybe even 300 baud packet, maybe with a neighbor ham.  But as somebody told me earlier today, I already have too many pipes in the plumbing. 

73

Luck, WA4STO
http://wa4sto.wordpress.com (http://wa4sto.wordpress.com)
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: KK0G on July 18, 2013, 10:59:51 PM
Quote
And they're also junk in my opinion.

These radios are basically CBs which have been extended to cover more channels. They are still channelized, so not really usable on Ham bands, on top of being illegal. It is actually illegal to have one on the premises.. I wouldn't risk losing my license having one of those in my house!

Gil.

Actually they're perfectly legal to own, buy, sell, use on the appropriate amateur bands. What is illegal is commercially selling them, in essence they are CB radios with expanded coverage, a big no-no as far as FCC is concerned. As an amateur you're free to do with it as you please on the appropriate amateur bands as long as your transmitted signal meets spectral purity standards (which as a licensed amateur you are responsible for no matter what the make, model, etc of your transmitter).
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: gil on July 18, 2013, 11:11:23 PM
Maybe I am confusing them with CB amps.. I do own one, a President Jackson, from my CB days, way back. 200+ channels, 35W. It's in storage.. I'd be willing to sell it for $170 plus shipping. That model has a "legendary" reputation. I already have a Galaxy DX 979, which is perfectly legal and Ham radios, so I don't need it.

http://www.transmission1.co.uk/2004/05/president-jackson-cb-radio-review-2/ (http://www.transmission1.co.uk/2004/05/president-jackson-cb-radio-review-2/)

Gil.
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: KK0G on July 18, 2013, 11:35:24 PM
Same thing would apply to amplifiers. The thing you have to remember is there is no 'type acceptance' when it comes to amateur radio. We are unique in that we're the only radio service that is allowed to build, modify, experiment with and homebrew our equipment to our hearts content. As I said before though, with that freedom comes the responsibility of ensuring your transmitted signal is a clean one.
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: Geek on July 19, 2013, 09:03:20 AM
These are radios, not amps, sold as 10m radios, not as CB radios.  These are current production units from manufacturers like Galaxy.  It would appear that with my license I can use the 10m frequencies open to HAMs, and the same unit could be used for CB, basic advantage being that I have one box instead of two in the confines of my truck.

On the other hand if they are pumping out illegal amounts of power, or in some other way problematic, I'd like to know.  That is where my question comes from.  I fully intend to comply with all the regulations.

To see what I am referring to, check out http://www.walcottcb.com and click on 10m radios.

Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: KK0G on July 19, 2013, 09:39:33 AM
These are radios, not amps, sold as 10m radios, not as CB radios.  These are current production units from manufacturers like Galaxy.  It would appear that with my license I can use the 10m frequencies open to HAMs, and the same unit could be used for CB, basic advantage being that I have one box instead of two in the confines of my truck.

On the other hand if they are pumping out illegal amounts of power, or in some other way problematic, I'd like to know.  That is where my question comes from.  I fully intend to comply with all the regulations.

To see what I am referring to, check out http://www.walcottcb.com and click on 10m radios.

Yes you can legally use that rig in the 10 meter band where you have privileges. No you absolutely can NOT legally use it as a CB on the 11 meter band. 
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: Geek on July 19, 2013, 10:28:17 AM
Thanks.  I would want a CB in the vehicle, so I would still need another radio with one of these in place.  My current plans for my vehicle are a CB and a 2m radio hooked up and anything else being in a box that could be deployed when parked.  These were causing me to reconsider, but I'm back to the original plan.
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: KK0G on July 19, 2013, 10:39:38 AM
Thanks.  I would want a CB in the vehicle, so I would still need another radio with one of these in place.  My current plans for my vehicle are a CB and a 2m radio hooked up and anything else being in a box that could be deployed when parked.  These were causing me to reconsider, but I'm back to the original plan.

No problem. Yours is a very common question that gets asked many times on ham radio forums, other than a few rare exceptions (such as programming amateur frequencies into the unused channels of your type accepted Land Mobile service Motorola issued to you by your volunteer FD) you can't combine amateur radio with another radio service in the same box.
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: White Tiger on July 19, 2013, 10:50:28 AM
I have two 10m radios - ironically, my first one is what got me into amateur radio.

...imagine one "box" that lets you go local, and global, at the same time!? Perfect for preps [he thought, before he knew anything about radio], check comms off my list of prepping needs, cool!

Then I met some one who knew what they were doing - that showed me:

A) While 10m IS an amateur band, it's not always,"there"...so it's not a good idea to use it as the backbone of any communications prep.

B) Even if you never use the CB until the SHTF/emergency - there's only 40 channels and several million people surrounding me on the only part of the radio that is "there".

C) The radio is extremely limited in power in its current configuration (15w) - so even if the band is "there" I could never be sure anyone could hear me!

I have two in a couple of metal ammo cans, along with two 10m dipoles, a coil of coax in each and some rope - and each ammo can also has a 2m HT. It is literally an item to be used as a "last resort" now.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: gil on July 19, 2013, 12:45:27 PM
Quote
vThese are radios, not amps, sold as 10m radios, not as CB radios.

Yes, but they are CBs. The problem with these is that on 10m, you are still limited to channels. Some have a +/- 5KHz knob you can use to go between channels. If you get one, make sure it has that, and that it changes TX as well as RX, not just an RIT.
If you want 10m in your car, you might want to look at a used Radio Shack HTX-10 on Ebay. they sell from $70 to $100...

Gil.
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: Geek on July 19, 2013, 02:07:48 PM
Quote
vThese are radios, not amps, sold as 10m radios, not as CB radios.

Yes, but they are CBs. The problem with these is that on 10m, you are still limited to channels. Some have a +/- 5KHz knob you can use to go between channels. If you get one, make sure it has that, and that it changes TX as well as RX, not just an RIT.
If you want 10m in your car, you might want to look at a used Radio Shack HTX-10 on Ebay. they sell from $70 to $100...

Gil.
I didn't really want 10m in the car.  I was planning 2m and CB.  When I saw these my initial reaction was I could check off the CB and get 10m as a bonus.  I've scratched that idea and am back to my original plan.
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: White Tiger on July 19, 2013, 02:48:44 PM
My 10m/CB just-in-case radio "go box" is in my car, in each of my cars actually, but it's not for mobile operation...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: gil on July 19, 2013, 03:21:44 PM
Quote
My 10m/CB just-in-case radio "go box" is in my car, in each of my cars actually, but it's not for mobile operation...

I wouldn't go on a road trip without a CB! Great for warnings on road conditions and traffic!
That and a 2m mobile like the FT-2900R.
No HF mobile for me. I couldn't copy CW and drive at the same time!

Gil.
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: extra_class_ham on December 29, 2013, 10:08:18 PM
Get the Yaesu FT857D and it will get you 160, 80, 60, 40, 30, 20, 17, 15, 12, 10, 2 and 70cm and has a detachable or remote separation kit. Then add your CB if you really want one.  NIce screwdriver antenna inside the bed, you will throw rocks at those "CB's"

Use the Panavise Flex Mount, best way to mount the radios I can think of.
http://panavise.com/index.html?pageID=1&id1=28&id2=34&startat=1&--woSECTIONSdatarq=34&--SECTIONSword=ww

I use the uniflex mounts.
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: IT Tech on January 18, 2014, 10:07:37 AM
I think that some people have the Generalities confused between amateur radio and CB radio.

Back in the day, it was not illegal to build a 10 meter mobile radio.  Radio Shack sold a perfectly good SSB 10 meter radio that was not easily modifiable to operate on 11 meters.

In my neighborhood, there were many people that were CB radio free banders before they were hams!
Those people were attracted to more channels and a quiet place to talk.
Some of the models used were the Sears Roadtalker or the Ranger 2950 / 2970....

The Roadtalkier had a specific chipset that allowed it to be easily modifiable.   

Some other manufacturers like Galaxy went to far as to design a 10 meter radio that could easily be modified by the owner or CB radio shop - cut one wire and it had both the channel display and the frequency display and could operate anywhere within it's design.  It offered more power and enough drive to run a simple class C - splatter all over the place - amplifier.

A unmolested Ranger 2950 was a decent 10 / 12 meter - 25 watt SSB transceiver.
When the Ranger was molested - to operate on all of the bands, no one ever took the time to align it to work properly on either band and they tended to drift in frequency or the RX and TX did not match on 10 meters.  This was the downfall of these transceivers.

If a person has an Amateur Radio License, it is not legal for them to use these radios on 11 meters because they exceed the maximum amount of transmit power, and any new amateur radio equipment manufactured after 1958 is not allowed to operate on 11 meters - which is the part that makes it illegal.

The problem that we have today is that there were so many of these illegal 10 meter transceivers manufactured  that the people that owns them does not understand the bandplan and we are getting interference on the 10 meter band - especially in the CW portion of the band.

Some of the Galaxy's were not designed to operate past 28.305 - which is where we are hearing them being operated illegally.  Most of what I hear is Spanish speaking - I would take it as Mexican or South America. - Is not regulated by the FCC..

Amateur Radios are in fact Type Accepted.
When ever you make more then 3 you have to submit it to the FCC and it has to be tested and pass before it gets it's type acceptance..
Two most recent examples that comes to mind is the Kenwood TS 590 and 990...

Both of these radios were available for sale elsewhere - except in the USA for the first 6 months of production, they could not be sold in the USA until they were approved for use by the FCC.
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: NCGunDude on September 21, 2014, 09:06:08 AM
freax, thanks for the discussion and the input. I haven't gotten into HF, yet. So I'm taking plenty of notes. My setup for around town is an HT and a mag mount. That's the nice thing about amateur radio. There's something for everyone and almost any budget.

My BO kit includes a go box using standard rack shelves for mounting equipment. I've got a decent tripod mounted dual band antenna, and an amp for increasing the PEP of the HT's.

For HF, I think I'll stick with a field kit, portable rig and probably a wire antenna. I don't know enough about HF to even talk about, but some day...

I'm pretty sure whatever I do with HF, it will include digital modes, so a laptop running Linux and a modem will be part of the setup. One of the things I'm looking into is SD radios, since that is essentially what a KX-3 is. Another interesting device are the USB dongles. I might get one just to start playing with it. Anyway, thanks again, and I look forward to reading some more of your posts.

73's
Title: Re: 10m radios
Post by: gil on September 21, 2014, 01:12:05 PM
Hello,

For SSB, you need power, yes. I'd say 50W to get you anywhere. With CW, 5W is enough ;)
Much less works fine sometimes for any modes, but I meant for somewhat reliable communications.
I've tested 100mW on CW, and it worked fine, more than once!

Gil.