Radio Preppers

 Do you REALLY need that ham license?

    I've read numerous posts in various "prepper forums" (thank God not here) on the theme "after the SHTF, a license won't mean diddly" and "I'll just gear up now and wait for things to fall apart before I use my transmitter". Unfortunately, that license will still be important, and familiarity with your rig will be vital.

    Most hams I know have a logging program with a database on a dedicated computer next to their rigs. If I punch in your call-sign, your name, address, and Maidenhead grid location immediately show in my station log. If you don't give me a call-sign, I won't respond to you unless you're calling "mayday", and then it better be a real emergency with an immediate threat to human life!. If you give me a bogus call-sign, you better have the name, address, grid, and location down pat. If I ask for your QTH, the correct answer is not "Huh? Wat?". In other words, the minute you make that first transmission, hams will know you aren't for real.

    There's a learning curve here. Folks are telling me that they'll have the gear and when the SHTF they'll just power up, set the proper band, frequency, and mode, key the microphone, and transmit with no problem tuning their antenna, setting the filters, or adjusting the microphone gain and transmitting power. Great! Then following that logic, I can buy a rifle, a scope, and a few boxes of ammo and leave them all on a shelf until I need them, then somehow strip and clean the rifle, attach the scope, load the magazines, and hit the 10-ring with my first 5 shots! You and I know that ain't gonna happen...

    So why add to the comms problems in a SHTF scenario when you can be part of the solution. Get your license and get on the air now. Get familiar with your rig and the procedures and the protocols in use. Join your local ham club. Check into a "traffic net" and get familiar with passing traffic. Hone your skills. When you really need them, the skills will be there!

"If SHTF, I'll just go down to the XYZ store and steal everything I need!  Like a Hummer H1!"

Don't worry about people who think they can do this with no training, no practice, and gear they've never used.  It's highly unlikely you'd ever hear them on air at all.

I certainly agree on getting a license. It isn't difficult or costly. People often forget how much training goes into prepping. Storing a few key supplies and gear is the easy part. Knowing how to use it all efficiently is another matter. Ever built a deadfall trap for small game? I have.. And no, it didn't work the first time.. When the SHTF, it's too late to start learning. Everything should come as second nature then.

Gil.

Practice makes perfect.  Practice and test all your preps.  KD0GDV, listening...

As a challange...

Next Friday night, turn off your main circuit breaker, promptly at 6:00pm (1800 hours).

Don't use any tap water and see how well the toilet flushes.

And too, Power up your radio gear and make contact with other hams while you are on battery power.  Those flashlight battries aren't dead, are they?  Do you even know where there is a flashlight in your home?

Eat your meals witout the ais of your stove (electric or gas) and use some other means to heat what you eat.

Oh, and how wonderful you will feel taking that cold shower at six am in the morning!  Oh, wait a minite... you don't have any running water!!!


A tip:

It was either at Lowes or Home Depot, they had some of those solar walk-way LED lights for sale for about $1.50 each.  I bought a half dozen of them and they work wonderful as night lights.  You don't need a lot of light to get from your bedroom to your bathroom at 3:00 am in the morning.  I ended up returning and purchasing another dozento out up as a prepping item.

1+

Jonas I couldn't agree with you more.  The only thing I can add is, when you're a new Ham, experienced operators are very excited for you and extremely willing to help with the learning curve.

This is the same question that is brought-up on every board. That tells us that it's on people's minds, but it generally creates more heat than light.

When the BIG ONE hits, license won't matter anyway, so I'll just buy the stuff (or steal it ) and talk...     -- Let's think about this...

I own a nice shiney field surgical kit and have 'heard about things' like how to cut a windpipe so that a person can breathe, or tie-off a spurting vein (or was that an artery?  Ooooh, I'll figure that out later...)  and etc. In a dire life and death emergency I can cut with the same tools as an experienced surgeon: and STILL PROBABLY kill my 'patient' deader than a bag of rocks. WHY? Because I have never done this before. Please understand: I'm a VERY techincal guy, I am a 'fast learner' and can build & fix almost anything, but you REALLY don't want my on-the-job-training to be inside of your chest cavity.  right?     :o      ...because I have never done this before.

In the same way, communications - REAL WORLD communications requires knowledge and experience to use that knowledge efficiently. Radios and communications systems, I have a lot of experience with. The reason that I do have more than a casual aquaintance with radio communications, all began with my ham license a looooong time ago. Since then it's been special military applications, using what I was trained to do and my ham experience (yes - ham came in handy) in foreign countries and yet I lived to tell about it. Thank God and good training and experience. The reason that I routinely communicate with friends in-state or across the continent (yes - daily) is because I know the how's & why's of radio communications, especially on the HF bands ("shortwave") which can do your heavy lifting in communications when you have lost all infrastructure. You must learn theory, because learning WHY something works is very important in getting it to work properly, then practice, because there is a difference between knowing about something and actuall 'owning your skills'. A few examples are, antennas (#1 importance), radio propagation i/e which bands to use at what times & seasons to reach what distances reliably. Electrical theory AND methods is so that you can power your equipment when you have no commercial power. . .  The list goes on, and you can learn and USE (i/e practice) it everyday, perfectly legally WITH a ham license. 

The ham radio license is a superb way to learn now - when mistakes are nothing more than a tiny Ooops, then to use what you've learned to build your experience level/reliability and then to improve upon your abilities as a communicator. The "I'll buy a radio and use it when TSHTF" is a poor plan, though not immediately as poor as the 'I bought the surgical kit, now let's get cutting so I can gain some experience!...' plan.  The other aspect is that those who you are communicating with on the radio NOW are the persons you'll likely be communicating with in a grid-down situation. Are you talking on a handi-talkie 2 miles, are you sending e-mail over HF radio to someone 100 or a few thousand miles away? We hams are - everyday . . . The ham radio ticket is your open door to LEGALLY and safely learn these skills. Should you ever need to use them, such as during hurricanes, ice storms or when driving to the Piggly Wiggly, then you can do it with zero risk. These ham skills are useful everyday, long before TSHTF.

Your #1 'survival tool' is not your rifle, not food storage & not even your ever present knife: it is your mind. Learn new skills,  use new skills until you 'own them'. That applies for everything from fire making to home canning to communicating and it makes us better people, better team members better at taking care of our families and friends. Other than that, learning new things & growing as a human being doesnt mean  . har! 

TAPRN and American Redoubt are both great websites to learn about applied/practical communications in a grid down situation. There is so much more than pushing the button on a handi-talkie and WOW is it handy!



de RadioRay ..._ ._

Quote from: openhisword on September 08, 2012, 09:31:06 PM
1+

Jonas I couldn't agree with you more.  The only thing I can add is, when you're a new Ham, experienced operators are very excited for you and extremely willing to help with the learning curve.

Not me!
I have already built a solar powered water system, with wind backup, and a geny on the side if that all fails I have a bicycle crank.
rigged into my house plumbing so it keeps it pressurized, supplied from a deep well with 550g storage.
Produces over 2000g a day and has enough extra power to run an AC unit or heater, a hot plate, LED lighting, and my radio gear.
You obviously can't live like you do with utility power but we will survive.

TAPRN is a great resource. Thanks for the link. I didn't know about it. I like their , especially the 7,242kHz frequency suggestion. We might piggyback on that one.

Gil.

I agree with getting the license.

For most people HAM radio is a "complicated" and "technical" hobby. Just because there are so many things non-licensed [I'm going to use my radio after TEOTWAWKI] thinking people that don't realize what can go wrong; it's much better to get the license and begin to "own that skill" as others have said.

I think any argument I've heard contrary to this pretty much is a moot point after the SHTF... If you are transmitting there is still a chance you can be found. Just because someone thought to search you out in a database of licensees doesn't really mean that much after the SHTF. Your antenna can still be spotted or your position can be made in many other ways; not to mention you may not be there with your portable station. Being in the know about your equipment and the process is still more useful in my opinion.

Yes, I'm terribad at stringing thoughts together on a forum!  :-X

About antennas, there are many ways to make them not look like antennas. Thin wire, green spray paint, flag poles, clotheslines, etc. My 24ft Imax2000 is painted camo green and brown. You can't see in in the trees unless you look very closely... I can string up a wire inside the house on the 2nd floor and use a tuner.. My 40m end-fed has a very thin wire you can barely see from any distance.

Gil.

Oh - there are so many ways to use clandestine antennas and methods of using a radio. There are many, many articles on-line about 'stealth antennas' and etc.  Government methods for sniffing and analyzing signals are tremendous.  However, if you are on HF, unless you're some sort of high priority radio target , the odds of a government going to the trouble of tracking your signals then doing the area search and eventual man-on-the-ground time to physically locate your station are not likely.  Whether operating 'guerilla' for fun or necessity, guerilla radio means you should look like one fish in a sea of millions; i/e blend in.   You're far more likely to be ratted-out by a neighbor or ex-girlfried and/or your computer.

>>> There is little operational difference between a random wire HF NVIS antenna up 8 feet and an extension cord strung out over fence rails and branches where you like to BBQ at night after work with friends... or what looks like 'cable' for the old TV system, going out to the pole, but which is actially not connected to anything at the pole, but IS a 'slant wire antenna' in the broad sense and both would be fine for at least a few hundred miles and likely more. Not as efficient as a dipole 60 feet in the air, but sometimes it pays to be flexible. The list goes on...


>RadioRay ..._ ._

From a "radio prepper" perspective, registering your home with the FCC/DHS as a radio communications facility, while hiding your antenna from your neighbors who could just look you up online if they wanted to know if your a ham, makes no sense to me.   Why bother with a stealthy antenna after you've already told everyone in the world, "I'm licensed to operate radios"?

On one hand we're discussing all the benefits of communications and how important it is to have, but on the other dismissing the idea that anyone else would care.   If it's valuable why would you want to tell everyone, if it's not valuable then why bother having it at all?   I think ham must be the only prep skill that most will argue that you either need to register with the government to use it, or don't to it at all.

The question of 'being on a government list' comes-up occasionally, but something to think of is that being on 'survivalist' and 'prepper' sites is entirely traceable, as is the driver's license, cell phone location, traffic quantity and audio/video - the same for 99.999% of all internet contact. Personally, if the FEAR of being listed is strong enough to stop me from my free exercise of entirely normal and harmless - (even helpful) behaviour, then we might want to consider whether we are enslaving ourselves, because such things are not prohibited by the government.  I mean if I can intimidate myself into stopping something that they have not even mentioned, then have I made myself into a slave of my own imagination?

The question arises why it would be a concern that we have a ham license?  If it is a concern over being on a government list to possibly be harassed by the government during a possible future emergency, then a far more likely list generator certainly would be visiting 'survivalist' sites on the internet, or buying ammunition, or food outside of the 'norm' and etc. because of credit card records.  Driving a car is no longer anon, because of license plate cameras and more.   The internet is thoroughly monitored per sites visited, e-mails sent, and add to that the use of financial intelligence means that, banking and credit card records are sifted for suspicious statistical anomolies, Cell phones are nothing less than personal locator beacons and 'bugs' and travel records in conjunction with other 'persons of interest' , all easily sifted and collated to generate a personal & group profile.  If I were some three letter agency in charge of making lists, I'd be VERY thankful for internet and the cell phone.  When a 'survivalist cell' gathers at a 'secret' location and brings their cellphones - viola!  I have a list of everyone there, probably audio and some video as well,  and the 'secret' location? , due to the cell phone's built-in "911" location requirement, I now can map routes of entry and exit etc.  No - I'd toss out a cell phone and computer before I'd do anything else, IF I were concerned about being anon - which I am not, but that's my personal choice. If I were concerned about such things, a ham ticket is the least of my worries.  If I were a government snoop-agency with such a plan, I'd write software to scan the internet chatter for phrases such as " government list" and log who said it and start collating any remotely associated data... 


As for neighbors who might go on-line, check through FCC ULS records for any of their surrounding homes to see whether they have a ham license, it's possible.  There ARE some real maggots out there, but  many hams have a license yet no radio station, or are exclusively VHF/UHF  and/or mobile only and most people (neighbors) do not know the difference. Experience has shown me the wisdom of two statements:

1. Out of site is out of mind.
2. Better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission.

If there is a concern about where your station is located, use a P.O. box, or your work address or a remailing service.  I have done all of that and more before, because in my case, I did not even have a physical address - I lived on a very mobile sailboat!  My 'address' was the latitude/longitude where I was anchored that week when I dinghied in to shore, yet I worked and had a paycheck. (You should see what I had to go through to get a driver's license at that time...) 

For me, the personal utility of the ham license for everyday use, emergency use and knowledge & skills gained, far outweighs a theoretical threat in a yet-to-be-experienced scenario.  Besides, other than my increasing age (which makes me 'safer' by the minute) , with my internet record, library records, Kindle book record and past service record - I'm already on 'the list' if there is one. 



Just my two cents worth - please adjust for hyper-inflation.

>RadioRay ..._ ._

I am not worried about being on "the list," because soon enough EVERYONE is going to be on it.
Growing the databases is how you get your budget increased for the next year...

Gil.

I always sound like an asshole when I read my own posts.

Quote from: RadioRay on September 12, 2012, 10:08:33 AM
If I were a government snoop-agency with such a plan, I'd write software to scan the internet chatter for phrases such as " government list" and log who said it and start collating any remotely associated data... 

You're right about the surveillance Ray, no matter what you do or how little you do it. 

Quote from: RadioRay on September 12, 2012, 10:08:33 AM

>>>>This would make a great discussion around a campfire with lots of rum!   :P

I've got a couple Mason jars of something better, but with you there.

It's probably gil ratting us all out anyway.  Think about it.  Lowercase "g", obvious alias.  Posts at all hours of the day/night, there's probably 5-6 "gils"" monitoring the forum 24x7.  Hell, found this place from a link off JW,R's place - and everybody knows he's a government poser.  Have a good one.

QuoteIt's probably gil ratting us all out anyway.  Think about it.  Lowercase "g", obvious alias.  Posts at all hours of the day/night, there's probably 5-6 "gils"" monitoring the forum 24x7.

;D    LOL!

I wish I could sleep better, I wouldn't be posting round the clock!  ::)
My photo is right here for face-recognition softwares to prove I am real.. Hehe.
Anyway, let's not get into a "them watching us debate."

Gil.

Quote from: Chasrobin on September 11, 2012, 10:47:23 AM

Quote from: openhisword on September 08, 2012, 09:31:06 PM
1+

Jonas I couldn't agree with you more.  The only thing I can add is, when you're a new Ham, experienced operators are very excited for you and extremely willing to help with the learning curve.

Not me!
I have already built a solar powered water system, with wind backup, and a geny on the side if that all fails I have a bicycle crank.
rigged into my house plumbing so it keeps it pressurized, supplied from a deep well with 550g storage.
Produces over 2000g a day and has enough extra power to run an AC unit or heater, a hot plate, LED lighting, and my radio gear.
You obviously can't live like you do with utility power but we will survive.

Wow. I am trying to talk my husband into getting solar power backup for our pump house in the pasture. We live up hill from the pump so water pressure is already very light, but I can take a shower if the cattle don't get it all first (neighbors cattle).

Regarding utilities, do many hams use solar as backup power, or do most HAMS on this site have a backup power source? Ice storms can take us off grid for 6 weeks at a time.

Is lightening a problem for HAM operations/hobby?

Hello,

Many Hams do have solar power as a backup, especially the QRP (low power operation) crowd. Some even use solar as their main power source. I don't know how much current a well pump draws, but you would probably need a fairly large panel and a battery to store the energy.

Lightning is a problem.. A good ground installation is necessary. The simplest protection is to unplug your radio when not in use. Have a spare antenna or extra wire, because that won't survive a strike.

Gil.

My backup is battery and a gasoline generator, no solar. Lightening? If you're on the air and have a large outside antenna, shut down your station and unplug the antenna during thunderstorms.

In forty years of hammming and MORE in shortwave radio, I have not yet taken a direct hit from lightning.  I did however, have nearby strikes cause damage to my mobile radio, likely because of the 16 foot military whip antenna...

As a precaution, I only have the antenna plugged in to the radio when I am operating.  There is no need to have it IN when not operating, so why take the chance of damage froma bolt out of the blue?  So far, no loss of a house hold radio.  The direct strike is not the most likely cause of damage.  Being in the area near a strike causes a 'surge' which a long antenna can pick-up and bring down ito your radio, damaging components.  You won't know it, until you try to use the radio. 


>RadioRay ..._ ._

Hello,

Adding a 100K resistor between the center of the coax and shield at the transmitter can help with static discharges during a storm. That said, I'd rather unplug the radio...

Gil.

Quote from: gil on September 11, 2012, 11:56:06 AM
TAPRN is a great resource. Thanks for the link. I didn't know about it. I like their <A HREF=\"http://www.catastrophenetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Standardized-Amateur-Radio-Prepper-Communications-Plan-10-2011.pdf\" target=_blank>Standardized Amateur Radio Prepper Communications Plan</A>, especially the 7,242kHz frequency suggestion. We might piggyback on that one.

Gil.

From this website, I came across this one: http://stores.tutorturtlepress.com/-strse-Survival-Communications/Categories.bok.

I now have a book for survival communications for Kansas. I was amazed to note the 11,400 FCC registered members all from Kansas. My husband gave me the OK to buy the book. I am looking forward to identifying others in my area that have an understanding of Amateur Radio.

I still do not have a receiver radio to listen to (shortwave). When I do get one, the book may make it easier to identify those near me. It is very possible that I am already acquainted a few HAM Operators and do not realize it.

Talk about privacy!! I wish the FCC database wasn't public record!

Gil.

As a prepper who once thought about emergency radio in JUST the sort of way - under the radar and only after the SHTF. Later, as I did the mental calculations for what I thought would be needed, it became obvious that I would need a license...if for nothing else...to talk to people who had licenses!

I remember quite recently stating that I didn't want to be on any more databases - especially since I had only recently popped up on one in particular - kept by my local guns store owner...

...but gaining knowledge by having discussions with some very intelligent hams - at least one of those conversations with a long-time ham who probably views government more dubiously than even I do - and I'm probably less concerned about showing up on yet another government database.

This is a very real fear - because I don't know if many of you noticed - but the government has been overreaching a LOT lately...and the problem is...when they do stuff it has a tendency to be long-lasting (if not permanent), and the innocent folks are the one that end up having to pick up the pieces, and clear their names and spend their own fotunes doing this.

What has pushed me into this isn't that I plan on doing something out of the ordinary. It is rather that I will be targeted for doing something perfectly legal - like having a prayer meeting in my house in Arizona for friends, family and neighbors. That guy is still in jail.

...for peaceful assembly, pursuing a natural right, the legality of which is acknowledged by our own constitution.

But as Gil may (or may not) have realized he alluded to...maybe staying OFF the radar is NOT the way? Maybe the best way is to establish a show of force - by illustrating JUST how many citizens are GOING to staying in contact with one another.

...so just this one, last, database...but after this one...no more!

The book arrived with the list of license holders in my state. Of the few in my neighboring towns, most are already deceased - years ago. Others have moved away. So far only one lady to have hopes to get in contact with. She is a little older than me and recently retired -  young retired ( ::)

I am doing a little studying for the Technician license almost everyday, and just getting back to CW for a few in the evening.

If I get on a bad list for trying to learn something to help people then so be it. God is my Strength and support and I believe in him more than the darn ol government. Psalm 23 did not exactly call out Ham radio, but could have. 

Quote from: KC5OTL on September 08, 2012, 06:02:45 PM
As a challange...

Next Friday night, turn off your main circuit breaker, promptly at 6:00pm (1800 hours).

Don't use any tap water and see how well the toilet flushes.

And too, Power up your radio gear and make contact with other hams while you are on battery power.  Those flashlight battries aren't dead, are they?  Do you even know where there is a flashlight in your home?

Eat your meals witout the ais of your stove (electric or gas) and use some other means to heat what you eat.

Oh, and how wonderful you will feel taking that cold shower at six am in the morning!  Oh, wait a minite... you don't have any running water!!!


A tip:

It was either at Lowes or Home Depot, they had some of those solar walk-way LED lights for sale for about $1.50 each.  I bought a half dozen of them and they work wonderful as night lights.  You don't need a lot of light to get from your bedroom to your bathroom at 3:00 am in the morning.  I ended up returning and purchasing another dozento out up as a prepping item.

This is an excellent post! Any prepper will tell you that you have to practice what you prepp (for)!

We're planning our "SHTF weekend" we'll do just what you propose - shut off the breaker, prepare the foid we've stored, have little/contact contact out side our home - and generally stick to the plan we prepared...mostly we're doing this to see if the plan works, and to see if we need augment it, add supplies, etc.,

about the turning off the water part.....I have had more experience with all that than I care to admit. This is the main reason why I am prepping. Rural living provides ample opportunity to be without utilities.

Having a backup battery news radio is always nice - but a HAM set up would make our place feel like a palace when the phone and internet are down.

Quote from: White Tiger on September 27, 2012, 11:05:11 PM
As a prepper who once thought about emergency radio in JUST the sort of way - under the radar and only after the SHTF. Later, as I did the mental calculations for what I thought would be needed, it became obvious that I would need a license...if for nothing else...to talk to people who had licenses!

Funny WT, I evaluated my requirements and came to a completely different conclusion.  My PTT buttons are usually dusty, and my interest is almost exclusively in the 200 or so square miles around my location.  If all is well there, then it isn't an emergency.  If it is a local emergency, then I don't see much need for two-way with distant stations. 

As for the license itself, all the information, plus the tests and the answers, are available free.  The only question after that is, "I wonder if the FCC cash my check?".  Look at the FCC violation reports, hard to find one where someone wasn't making a nuisance of themselves.  If you can't resist the urge to xmit frequently, get a license by all means.  If you just want to be prepped, get the knowledge, and borrow a callsign once in a while for testing purposes imo.   

Quote from: Sunflower on September 27, 2012, 11:25:41 PM
The book arrived with the list of license holders in my state. Of the few in my neighboring towns, most are already deceased - years ago. Others have moved away. So far only one lady to have hopes to get in contact with. She is a little older than me and recently retired -  young retired ( ::)

Hi Sunflower - For a list of FCC license holders, past or present, in your area you can use the "advanced license search" option here: http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/searchLicense.jsp

After selecting your parameters and hitting 'search', the next page will have a "query download" option for saving the list as a pipe delimited text file for importing into a spreadsheet if you wish.  Expect to receive lots of new junk mail after your callsign shows up, as companies use the database to help target potential new customers.  Your local ham group(s) will probably contact you to join, most monitor the license DB for new hams.  A local group near me often lists the new hams in the area during their weekly nets. 

Quote from: Frosty on September 28, 2012, 09:26:51 AM
If you just want to be prepped, get the knowledge, and borrow a callsign once in a while for testing purposes imo.

...btw Frosty...what'd you say your callsign was again?

[...only because you had to know it was coming... ;D]

QuoteIf you just want to be prepped, get the knowledge, and borrow a callsign once in a while for testing purposes imo.

As I mentioned in the Welcome message in the General board, it is not all right to suggest illegal activities on this forum.

So, no, do not borrow a call sign! Or if you do, don't post it here, thank you.

Gil.

Nope, just kidding, as I said I have come to the understanding that IF (when?) things get "harry" it will likely take them some time to collate all the various databases I land on!

...and just so you know Frosty, my exam date is 10/6, so I don't really need to borrow a call sign!

Now, for those that are worried about the privacy aspect of rogue types having access to some private information made a matter of public record when you register in the ULS call sign database: I heard one suggestion is to buy a post office box and make that your licensing address. You gain SOME anonimity back!

Kinda makes it hard for rogue types to hunt you down by looking up your address from your published call sign (I've looked up several of you from my iPhone this evening), if they can only get as far as the local post office...well, that's not going to do them much good!

...of course, they could just look for the tell-tale antenna sticking 40' into the air - so I guess it gets back to OPSEC - use the PO box AND hide the antenna!!

...just make sure you check your post office box regularly - would be irritating to have your license revoked simply for failure to reply to a letter from the FCC...

Quote from: White Tiger on September 29, 2012, 02:31:53 AM
of course, they could just look for the tell-tale antenna sticking 40' into the air - so I guess it gets back to OPSEC - use the PO box AND hide the antenna!!

"no suh, Mr. Deb-booty Sheriff"  "that thar's sure no hamateur raddidio antenna up there; it's my skeeter zapper.  You don't see no skeeters here in my back yard, now do ya?  See?  It's working jess grate!"

Quote from: gil on September 28, 2012, 11:59:16 PM
As I mentioned in the Welcome message in the General board, it is not all right to suggest illegal activities on this forum.

So, no, do not borrow a call sign! Or if you do, don't post it here, thank you.

Gil.

Sorry Gil. Your house, your rules - understood.

Quote from: White Tiger on September 28, 2012, 11:22:13 PM
...btw Frosty...what'd you say your callsign was again?

Well, maybe KE4KVI would have been a better choice for this thread.  Friends call me Ben btw.

Quote from: White Tiger on September 29, 2012, 02:31:53 AM...of course, they could just look for the tell-tale antenna sticking 40' into the air - so I guess it gets back to OPSEC - use the PO box AND hide the antenna!!

[/quote

Heck, my antenna is 60' up! ;)

Quote from: Frosty on September 29, 2012, 11:26:41 AM
Friends call me Ben btw.

Hah, well Ben it is, then!

I'm Tim

Quote from: Frosty on September 11, 2012, 10:44:40 PM
From a "radio prepper" perspective, registering your home with the FCC/DHS as a radio communications facility, while hiding your antenna from your neighbors who could just look you up online if they wanted to know if your a ham, makes no sense to me.

I dont know why a neighbor would look you up if he didnt know you were a ham unless you told him and you can list a PO box on your FCC address instead of your mailing address.

Quote from: RadioRay on September 16, 2012, 11:38:16 AM
In forty years of hammming and MORE in shortwave radio, I have not yet taken a direct hit from lightning.  I did however, have nearby strikes cause damage to my mobile radio, likely because of the 16 foot military whip antenna...

As a precaution, I only have the antenna plugged in to the radio when I am operating.  There is no need to have it IN when not operating, so why take the chance of damage froma bolt out of the blue?  So far, no loss of a house hold radio.  The direct strike is not the most likely cause of damage.  Being in the area near a strike causes a 'surge' which a long antenna can pick-up and bring down ito your radio, damaging components.  You won't know it, until you try to use the radio. 


>RadioRay ..._ ._

One thought comes to mind, if a lightning bolt can travel a couple of miles through the sky, can't it travel a couple of inches or feet in the vehicle or the shack if left unterminated.

Quote from: White Tiger on September 27, 2012, 11:05:11 PM
As a prepper who once thought about emergency radio in JUST the sort of way - under the radar and only after the SHTF. Later, as I did the mental calculations for what I thought would be needed, it became obvious that I would need a license...if for nothing else...to talk to people who had licenses!

I remember quite recently stating that I didn't want to be on any more databases - especially since I had only recently popped up on one in particular - kept by my local guns store owner...

...but gaining knowledge by having discussions with some very intelligent hams - at least one of those conversations with a long-time ham who probably views government more dubiously than even I do - and I'm probably less concerned about showing up on yet another government database.

This is a very real fear - because I don't know if many of you noticed - but the government has been overreaching a LOT lately...and the problem is...when they do stuff it has a tendency to be long-lasting (if not permanent), and the innocent folks are the one that end up having to pick up the pieces, and clear their names and spend their own fotunes doing this.

What has pushed me into this isn't that I plan on doing something out of the ordinary. It is rather that I will be targeted for doing something perfectly legal - like having a prayer meeting in my house in Arizona for friends, family and neighbors. That guy is still in jail.

...for peaceful assembly, pursuing a natural right, the legality of which is acknowledged by our own constitution.

But as Gil may (or may not) have realized he alluded to...maybe staying OFF the radar is NOT the way? Maybe the best way is to establish a show of force - by illustrating JUST how many citizens are GOING to staying in contact with one another.

...so just this one, last, database...but after this one...no more!

There is less then 700,000 licensed hams in the USA today and 65% of them only has a Technician Class LICENSE!  Many of those people plans to break the law or does not understand the law when it comes to illegally operating during an emergency.

700,000 licenses equals .015% of the population.
Where as, 65% of the population has a cell phone.

The NSA and the cell phone companies are logging every word you speak, every text message you send, every stupid picture you take and everything you look at on the phone, along with GPS triangulation - they know where you are at 24 hours a day.  Since no one goes anywhere without their cell phone.

I would have to say that the stupid people are the ones with the cell phones, not the ones operating legally with the ham radios.
The thought of any of my neighbors understanding what I do as a hobby is hilarious.

Some people thinks that it is just the walkie talkie carrying people, or that it is the same as CB radio or that you don't have to know anything or know how to do anything, just buy stuff and get on the air.

I have to be brutally honest here.

I have been thrown off every Prepper board in existence for speaking my mind when it comes to amateur radio.  The reason for the squabble is exactly the same reason described on this forum,  many people thinks that there is no reason to get a license and that they can buy a couple of $40 walkie talkies and that they will be welcome to get on the repeater or the radio and just talk without any repercussions.

The truth to the matter is - they read the part in the Part 97 that says that anyone can use anything available to them to call for help, and they confuse the call for help with just a plain old emergency.

In an emergency, can I call for help on a police frequency - technicially NO, because it is not allowed, but honestly if you had a police vehicle in front of your house and the officer was shot and couldn't get to the radio - yes you could use his radio.. You just can't shoot him so you can use it.
ONCE your call for help is sent, you have to get off the radio.
This is where the confusion lie's.. These people thinks that because it is an emergency, all the rules of radio are dropped and it is a free for all.

Just today I was trying to work digital modes on 10 meters and on both 28.070 and 28.120 MHz USB - there were Spanish speaking people on the band.   This tells me that they own either illegal CB radio equipment, judging by the rodger beeps - this leads me to believe it is true, along with others that probably bought legal ham radio equipment but does not know the rules or has a license.

I turned the transmit power up to 40 watts and started sending CW, followed by a couple of bursts of PSK 31.....  Just enough to let them know that their free banding was neither wanted or allowed on our bands.

Do the Preppers get upset when I tell them that it is not legal to build illegal repeaters on the GMRS that are not coordinated and has no call sign?  Of course they do, but the forum owner just lets them keep right on giving instructions on how to build them out of everything from legal ham radio equipment to just tying two Woxshun walkie talkies together and putting them  on a tower 300' off the ground - connected to some type of antenna with a little gain.....

Is it illegal for them to use their Boefang walkie talkies on the two meters or the Marine band to talk between husband and wife and wife and kids like a telephone? 

Yes, but no one likes being told that they are not allowed to do it...

It is the old CB radio mentality of there is going to be so many of us breaking the rules and since we are mobile and have no call sign, you don't have any way of catching us so blow your rules out your butt!
And that was what ruined CB radio in 1976.!

Quote from: IT Tech on January 18, 2014, 07:28:30 PM
I have to be brutally honest here.

I have been thrown off every Prepper board in existence for speaking my mind when it comes to amateur radio.  The reason for the squabble is exactly the same reason described on this forum,  many people thinks that there is no reason to get a license and that they can buy a couple of $40 walkie talkies and that they will be welcome to get on the repeater or the radio and just talk without any repercussions.

The truth to the matter is - they read the part in the Part 97 that says that anyone can use anything available to them to call for help, and they confuse the call for help with just a plain old emergency.

In an emergency, can I call for help on a police frequency - technicially NO, because it is not allowed, but honestly if you had a police vehicle in front of your house and the officer was shot and couldn't get to the radio - yes you could use his radio.. You just can't shoot him so you can use it.
ONCE your call for help is sent, you have to get off the radio.
This is where the confusion lie's.. These people thinks that because it is an emergency, all the rules of radio are dropped and it is a free for all.

Just today I was trying to work digital modes on 10 meters and on both 28.070 and 28.120 MHz USB - there were Spanish speaking people on the band.   This tells me that they own either illegal CB radio equipment, judging by the rodger beeps - this leads me to believe it is true, along with others that probably bought legal ham radio equipment but does not know the rules or has a license.

I turned the transmit power up to 40 watts and started sending CW, followed by a couple of bursts of PSK 31.....  Just enough to let them know that their free banding was neither wanted or allowed on our bands.

Do the Preppers get upset when I tell them that it is not legal to build illegal repeaters on the GMRS that are not coordinated and has no call sign?  Of course they do, but the forum owner just lets them keep right on giving instructions on how to build them out of everything from legal ham radio equipment to just tying two Woxshun walkie talkies together and putting them  on a tower 300' off the ground - connected to some type of antenna with a little gain.....

Is it illegal for them to use their Boefang walkie talkies on the two meters or the Marine band to talk between husband and wife and wife and kids like a telephone? 

Yes, but no one likes being told that they are not allowed to do it...

It is the old CB radio mentality of there is going to be so many of us breaking the rules and since we are mobile and have no call sign, you don't have any way of catching us so blow your rules out your butt!
And that was what ruined CB radio in 1976.!

I've been active on this forum for quite some time now so I speak from experience when I say that the top 15 posters who make probably 80% of the total forum posts, are all active hams. As a whole we have have always promoted the "if you don't use it now, you won't use it then" philosophy. In other words, passing the technician test and stuffing a Baofeng in a bug out bag will be completely useless without real world, practical experience. Since we've never advocated breaking the law on this forum, then by default to follow our advice one must be a licensed amateur to utilize the amateur bands.

I definitely agree with Gil; there's no way in hell I'd ever advocate for mandatory public service for hams and in fact I'd fight vehemently against it. The last thing we need is the government forcing us to do something else against our will.

PS: Technically it is allowed to call for help on a police frequency in a true emergency. The odds that the circumstances exist which it would be allowed would be so obscure as to make it almost unrealistic, but technically, it is allowed.

Quote from: KK0G on January 18, 2014, 09:25:42 PMPS: Technically it is allowed to call for help on a police frequency in a true emergency. The odds that the circumstances exist which it would be allowed would be so obscure as to make it almost unrealistic, but technically, it is allowed.

I think we need to note that it is not a violation of FCC rules, but it may well be a violation of state/local laws regarding interfering with police activity.  There was a case where a passerby found an unconscious police officer and used the officer's vehicle radio to call for help.  He was rewarded by being charged with interfering with police activity.  I do not know the outcome of that incident; maybe the charges were dropped and maybe they weren't.  I read about it some years ago.  It did seem like reinforcement of the old rule that "No good deed goes unpunished."

Wally

I am glad this site has attracted top-notch members, people with good knowledge and their head on their shoulders. As Chris said, the top posters are all Hams. Not that others are not welcome, by any means. I started with CB myself in the 80s when it was still civil and self-policing. I think the natural route for anyone interested in radio is to become a licensed Ham. Being limited to CB, MURS and FRS radios doesn't leave much potential for experimentation. Besides, the lowest band of 11m isn't open as often as say, 20m. Ham radios are also generally better built.

Being a Libertarian at heart, I do not like too many laws and regulations. There is a good argument for the air waves to be free for all. The potential for abuse however is just too great. We do need some rules and band limits. Since we don't want more rules than necessary, better not break those in place right now. That means getting a license. It also means not using a modified CB or an illegal amp. I do own an old President Jackson with 200+ channels and 35W but it is in storage. I bought a legal CB instead. I will not break the law because I want to keep my Ham privileges. Getting a license is easy and cheap. There is no good reason not to get one.

A note about emergency communications: There are two kinds in my opinion... Personal emergency communications and community emergency communications. The first one deals with an individual, his family and close friends, maybe a preppers group. The second deals with helping the community in general, often in collaboration with various agencies. These are two very different goals requiring different gear and procedures. They are not mutually exclusive. Personally I am mostly interested in the first. I would participate in an effort to help my community, but I am not the sacrificial lamb type. We are talking about life-and-death emergencies here, not the sporadic hurricane or power outage... That I would gladly participate in any effort to fix things up. When things get really bad though, it's every man for himself, no matter what one idealistic fantasies were. One thing I am adamant about again is that forced community service is slavery and I don't want any such talks here.

Nobody is going to be thrown off for suggesting respecting the law. Actually I don't remember anyone being thrown off this site since it opened. Though people have left because it is a regulated private forum. I hate censorship, so will not censor anyone unless absolutely necessary, such as with foul language, personal attacks, trolling and such. Most forums have similar rules anyway.

About using any frequencies in an emergency... It depends on the emergency. As I understand it, it has to be a dire emergency where life is at risk. You can't use a Ham radio to call a tow truck because your car broke down. Now, if you are broken down in a remote area and the temperature is going to be well below freezing that night, you have a legitimate reason to use the equipment. Most people think you just turn the radio on, grab the microphone and start calling... After all, doesn't it work like that on television? And there will be someone to answer of course... Ah, but what band to use for the time of day and season? What's a band anyway? Right... What mode has the best chance of success? Where are the common calling frequencies? Not to mention technical challenges like tuning an antenna... Joe Prepper who bought a Ham radio and has never used it before is facing a steep learning curve while his buddy might be bleeding on the floor...

QuoteThere was a case where a passerby found an unconscious police officer and used the officer's vehicle radio to call for help.  He was rewarded by being charged with interfering with police activity.

Now I would take that all the way to court; there is no way he would be convicted. Just the fact that he was charged though is appalling and a sad reminder of what this country has become. But that's another story.

Anyway, I believe all preppers should have a Ham license or at least have one guy in their group, if they belong to one, with a Ham license and the knowledge to use it. Not just a Technician license but at least General. The General exam is really just a few more questions than the Tech, the difficulty is barely above Technician level. I would suggest anyone to attempt both at the same time.

Gil.

" One thought comes to mind, if a lightning bolt can travel a couple of miles through the sky, can't it travel a couple of inches or feet in the vehicle or the shack if left unterminated."
---
Yes , a direct lightning strike can easily span a few miles, thus easily span a few feet. However, you know from electrical laws  that even for a direct strike,  electrical current follows the path of least resistance. So if the ladder line is laying on the lawn rather than connected to the radio inside of my house, the energy should find that a very much more direct path to ground rather than than leaping off elsewhere - though the near field energy might cause damage.

However, the induced field from a near-by strike can and does dump a LOT of energy into surrounding conductors. By being disconnected from the rig by even inches, the induced current from a near-by, but not direct strike is far less likely to damage my radio gear and I can sit back and enjoy the SHOW!
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRRCSAAYZg2Uw8jdkuOiPJMAovo-gOBjI2TxSskZfFO6f9XIYNZ6w)


>de RadioRay ..._  ._

Well Gill,

I find it a personal choice for those that choose not to participate in Amateur Radio and I wouldn't force it upon anyone.
However, if you want to play, you have to pay.
I understand that it is costly in both time and money to invest in amateur radio.
I myself, with lot's of time on my hands, been disabled since 1998 - WAS able to study for the Technician class license and pass in just one week.
'Went home, studied two more weeks, found another VE test session - passed, went home - studied two more weeks, forgot my glasses, couldn't see the test, had to wait four more weeks until I found another 'VE test session" missed 3 questions - passed with flying colors, became a VE that day.

'Went home, took the ARRL VE test exam, got 100% right, sent in my credentials and got my ARRL VE certificate.   But then again, that was just me.   It's what I wanted to do....

There is a whole world out there, and the internet just goes to show that it keeps getting smaller and smaller due to the fact that what we do today is global.

The reason why HAMS should have to do something to justify their license is due to the fact that the Privileges given to them are Privileges - not a right, and that if we don't do things to justify our license to the rest of the world, we risk loosing those privileges to those that will either pay to use those frequencies, or will do something to justify their license.

There is no restrictions today on CB radio as far as power goes, as long as you keep your signal inside of the 40 channels given to them.  The only time the FCC enforces any of the rules is when someone breaks the rules and causes harmful interference.   The most recent violations were interference with aircraft bands and a prison radio system.. Neither of which should have had anything to do with a 11 meters transmitter.   The Prison interference was in fact someone that was once a ham that had FM ham equipment that was modified to operate on the Prison frequencies.

The Police frequencies are verboten because they are a public service and emergency service and anything done on their frequencies is considered harmful interference.
However, if a policeman was shot and a regular citizen used the policeman's patrol car radio to call for help, I don't know of any police that would prosecute someone for trying to help. Nor could they prosecute someone because the offense would be Federal / not state.

Everything that we do on the radio is 'Federal!

My suggestion would be two fold,

First - I would suggest that you study and get your amateur radio license.   If you do not have any prerequisites that prohibits you from getting a license ..   The license opens many doors.

I oftentimes explain to people that the amateur frequencies are no different then the citizen band, other then the fact that we have more frequencies, and everyone has to have a license.

Even though we have those frequencies, there is nothing magical about them.   You can't automatically just talk all over the world just because you can operate on 20 or 40 meters.
In fact, sometimes that is a good thing, while other times it is a bad thing.

20 meters during the day is mostly rag chews and nets, or people from Italy or a Spanish speaking country that camps out on one particular frequency and calls CQ or rag chews.   
Radio transcends the boundaries of countries or continents.

40 meters - day or night is even worse.

The thing about having the Amateur Extra Class License is that I can transmit everywhere, which allows me to get away from all of that noise, but then again, the only people you can talk to in the AE portion of the bands is other AE's..  Some of them are old while others are just new hams that don't know a whole lot.. 'What the old hams calls a Extra Light' - of which I am considered one.

The other disturbing thing is that most hams neglect to include people from the other radio services when they conduct their SET - Situational Emergency Test..

The ARES / RACES should include CB radio, MURS, GMRS, and even the FRS where applicable.

That is a true barometer of what actually can be performed by a group of people that are willing to all work together and it would gravitate more people towards AMATEUR RADIO as not only just a family friendly hobby but as an actual service that we should perform in times of need.

A trained pool of licensed amateurs that can be called upon in an emergency, that are self trained, and at no cost to the government.  We performed essential duties in world war one and world war two, by either physically volunteering to act as radio operators, or as instructors in the radio schools to teach others how to properly operate a radio and teach those operators code which was an essential requirement at that time.

Today the government has their own satellites and radios and CW is no longer a requirement to operate a radio efficiently, due to the fact that digital modes has taken its place.
But it still takes trained operators to set up those radios and operate them.
Today computer literacy is much more important then knowing how to cut a dipole antenna for 80 meters or build ladder line out of communications wire and some plastic insulator spacers - ladder line..

Quote from: RadioRay on January 19, 2014, 09:11:09 AM
" One thought comes to mind, if a lightning bolt can travel a couple of miles through the sky, can't it travel a couple of inches or feet in the vehicle or the shack if left unterminated."
---
Yes , a direct lightning strike can easily span a few miles, thus easily span a few feet. However, you know from electrical laws  that even for a direct strike,  electrical current follows the path of least resistance. So if the ladder line is laying on the lawn rather than connected to the radio inside of my house, the energy should find that a very much more direct path to ground rather than than leaping off elsewhere - though the near field energy might cause damage.

However, the induced field from a near-by strike can and does dump a LOT of energy into surrounding conductors. By being disconnected from the rig by even inches, the induced current from a near-by, but not direct strike is far less likely to damage my radio gear and I can sit back and enjoy the SHOW!
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRRCSAAYZg2Uw8jdkuOiPJMAovo-gOBjI2TxSskZfFO6f9XIYNZ6w)


>de RadioRay ..._  ._

Yes Ray - you are right, however..  My last full time employer before my disability was as a sub contractor for a Electric Utility Company - and the first thing you learn is that most lightning strike damage is caused by the lightning hitting the electric lines and not by the lightning striking your antenna.

The infrastructure of the electric utility is very large, while the antenna atop your house or vehicle roof is miniscule in comparison.
The lightning strikes the line, is adsorbed by the transformer - which becomes a weird capacitor when those currents are induced through the lines - because they transformer, lightning arrestor and other grounds and equipment are only designed for 60 hz power, not the lightning.

The lightning comes into the shack through the power lines and gets inside of all of the electrical equipment inside of the house..  Today with the furnace controls and microwave ovens, computers, and televisions - there are lot's of things to be damaged by the power spike.

It would be more prudent to disconnect the power supply from the home station then to disconnect the antenna.   Even using coax as a station ground, the coax becomes a inductor - which can amplify the currents present like a transformer.  But I have seen people use coax to a dedicated ground grid that switches the antenna to this ground when lightning is suspected or present to protect the station.

Many people makes the mistake of connecting the station ground directly to the electrical utility ground stake - which just helps bring the lightning in that much easier.

The neat thing is that the cellular tower industry has taken a page from the electric generation industry and has built their cell tower locations with the same technology used to build a electric sub-station.
Having multiple ground stakes away from the equipment, putting a grid underneath a couple of inches of gravel, cad welding everything together.   Making the grid spread the current over a large area as opposed to just attaching a cable to a ground stake.

For anyone that has ever worked around a sub- station during a electrical storm, and has saw a lightning strike and a fireball ( St. Elmo's Fire ) appear out of the surface 100 feet from the substation -you know that this technology works.

Your opinion then, is that there is no need to disconnect and remote antenna feed lines while taking nearby lightning strikes?
::)
:o
The damage to my MOBILE  autocoupler occurred during a series of close lightning strikes - not a direct hit. My insurance paid for that analysis through the marine radio electronics shop.  I was on the porch watching the storm come through when this happened. The HF transceiver was disconnected and undamaged, though the mamory was scrambled, but easily reset.  Naturally, my vehicle had no connection with the POWER LINES which took the strike on the edge of my property. That was only a 16' mobile whip tied forward. The series of strikes at that time were essentially immediate flash/CRACK, and a column of electrical plasma with massive current flow at extreme voltage is absolutely going to couple a lot of power into my large and HIGH home dipole antenna and feedline, even without a direct strike.  That is what an antenna does; couple faint EM energy into the HF station..

Many of the sailors I know  have had significant lightning damage to their marine SSB (HF) and etc. from other than direct strikes while under sail or on the hook (anchored). Naturally, no power lines there.

Is it a good idea to fully isolate, including from power lines ? Yes.


YMMV,


>de RadioRay ..._ ._

This is what you should be using at the top of the mast of your boat. - http://www.lbagroup.com/products/lightning-protection-masts-dissipators#tower

I'm surprised that no one has told you this before.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/document.do?docId=995

When you are on the water, you are the highest thing in the neighborhood - hence your mast becomes a convenient lightning rod.

Quote from: IT Tech on January 20, 2014, 08:01:53 AM
This is what you should be using at the top of the mast of your boat. - http://www.lbagroup.com/products/lightning-protection-masts-dissipators#tower (http://www.lbagroup.com/products/lightning-protection-masts-dissipators#tower)

I'm surprised that no one has told you this before.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/document.do?docId=995 (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/document.do?docId=995)

When you are on the water, you are the highest thing in the neighborhood - hence your mast becomes a convenient lightning rod.

Quote from: IT Tech on January 18, 2014, 07:28:30 PMI have to be brutally honest here.I have been thrown off every Prepper board in existence for speaking my mind when it comes to amateur radio.

Really? I never would have guessed.

"...honest..." & "...thrown off every Prepper board... ."

Hmmm   ???   Must be some use of the word "honest" with which I was previously unfamiliar.

de RR  ..._  ._

For those of you concerned with adding your location to the fcc database, bear in mind that form 605 asks for your mailing address, not your physical address. My address of record is a personal mail box at a ups store several miles away from my rural home.

Hello,

I am sure I won't be the only one replying, so I will make it short, because it is passed my bed time here, and I need to get up at a reasonable hour..

If you don't want to get a Ham license, that is your prerogative. I can tell however by reading your post that you do not have the knowledge required to insure reliable communications. No offense intended, we have all been there. What seems like "child play" from the outside might turn into something more... It's no rocket science mind you, but there is a bit of an art to it. Only practice (not reading about it) will give you the skills to communicate reliably, technically, environmentally and humanly speaking.

CB is great, but very unreliable because the high frequency signal will not bounce on the ionosphere unless the conditions are very good. It will reliably work up to maybe 15 miles, possibly more depending on antenna height. It will also sporadically work beyond say, 500 miles. Between 15 and 500, not so much, that being the skipped zone. CB laso has only 40 channels, and that can become crowded very fast. A lot of people have them, so there goes your OPSEC. BTW there are no "CB bands." CB is only one band, the 11m/27mHz band, period. There is no such thing as "UHF CB." You must be reffering to FRS or GMRS, maybe MURS? They are not CB. Not much OPSEC there either as most people have a pair laying around somewhere (MURS is better in that regard)..

As far as antennas and their applications, a lifetime of study might be enough to understand them all, but even then... That is rocket-science level stuff.

All that being said, I am sure you would figure it out soon or later, but trust me, it would take you quite a bit longer than you think... In radio, it's not the equipment only that ensures reliable communications, it's the way you use it, and the variables are numerous. Problem is in an EOTW situation, do you have time to experiment and goof around learning, or do you need things to work NOW!? You could learn to swim from a book, but you wouldn't jump from a boat in deep water on your first try, right? Because the chances that everything will work according to your previsions are rather slim.

Anyway, welcome to the forum :) Nobody is going to blast you here, it's not that kind of forum. We have high-caliber people here, and very knowledgeable. Keep browsing around and you will slowly realize how much there is to learn. As to privacy, you just give a different address for your license than your real domicile. I don't think there is a big risk of any country invading the U.S. "A gun behind every blade of grass," remember... The Japanese knew better than to try.

Gil.

freax, welcome to the forum. You made a point in your first post, and reiterated in your second, but learning morse is no longer required on any of the licensing exams.

With regards to OPSEC and SHTF comms, it's true while you might get by without a license, your signal will give you away before anything else, such as an address in a database. If it's grid down, it won't matter much, no one's coming to your house. You can't compare WWII with anything occurring today, except for human nature.

The prevailing wisdom is it's better to get your license, get your gear, and practice, practice, practice, instead of buying gear and putting it away for SHTF. The same is true for any aspect of your preps. My family camps, for example. Being prepared is a lifestyle, not a hobby.

I highly recommend getting your license, it costs $14 to take the exam. The answers to the question pool are online, you can take the technicians, general, and extra all in one day, if you keep passing. I took separate exams for the technician and general. You'll want General to transmit on HF.

Chinese HT's can be had for $35 and a mag mount antenna will get you on most of the repeaters in your area. I've found the HAM community to be very accommodating to new operators of all backgrounds.

Welcome to the forum freax, glad to have you aboard.

Quote from: freax on September 20, 2014, 04:59:17 AM
Fully aware that I'm inexperienced with the on-air protocols required to contact and interact with another HAM radio member. However seeing as I am going to be using my equipment for mostly local family-to-family or friend-to-friend contacts who make up a large part of my prepping team have no experience dealing with HAM operators so talking in Q-Codes to them wouldn't be very useful or helpful at all.

This is what Gil was referring to when he said "Only practice (not reading about it) will give you the skills to communicate reliably, technically, environmentally and humanly speaking." He wasn't talking about on-air protocols or Q-codes, while those are handy to know - when communicating with other hams - they're not at all required to effectively communicate. As some examples of what he's talking about, what band would probably be best suited to effectively communicate to one of your prepping team members 300 miles away at 1900 local time during the month of June? What mode would be best suited for that? How about the antenna type? Do you have the skills necessary to effectively operate your receiver filters, AGC and pre-amp to pull that possibly extremely weak signal out of the noise? If you don't have either the band, mode, or antenna available for the previous questions, what time of day would be better suited to make contact with what you do have available? The knowledge to answer all these questions comes from years of experience that you gain from actual day to day on air operating, I'm a little hesitant to say that it can't be learned from a book, but I'll say it really can't be learned from a book. Oh, and the above questions barely even scratch the surface of what we're talking about.

I highly encourage you to get your amateur license, it sounds like you're pretty handy with the technical side of things, you'd have no problem passing the tests. If you're worried about security do as others have already said; don't give the FCC your address. All that's required by law is someplace for them to send you mail, it can be PO box, a friends house, your cousins PO box, anywhere that will accept mail for you.

Right on Chris, that's what I was going to say, but you beat me to it. Personally I hate protocols. I abide by a few in Morse code because they make understanding easier, but in voice modes, I find them silly. I know, they are somewhat useful, but I just have a hard time with them, or the Q code for that matter, which using CW shortens messages a great deal. Sometimes Ray sends me a Q code and I go "shit" and fire up google to check it :-\

A note on CW vs Morse code: Morse code is the dits and dahs code. I could compare it to, say, English or French. It's a coded language. CW is a mode through which you send Morse code. It's easy to use them for the same thing, but they are not. CW is like USB or FM, just a mode. You don't say "I learned USB" or "I speak USB." The same way you can't say "I'll learn CW." You can't learn a mode. I could make up my own "Gil code" and send it in CW...

BTW is sounds like Freax is not in the U.S. am I correct Freax?

QuoteAs some examples of what he's talking about, what band would probably be best suited to effectively communicate to one of your prepping team members 300 miles away at 1900 local time during the month of June? What mode would be best suited for that? How about the antenna type?

I couldn't have said it better! Propagation conditions depend on time of day, season, solar cycle, solar activity, frequency, take-off angle and how many cows are facing North-West in the Southern hemisphere :o Just to say that there are some variables we do not quite understand... What if it's daytime here but it is night time for my contact? It gets quite convoluted. The good thing is that once you have established what works best for one contact throughout a year, it will likely be the same the next year.

If I had to pick a couple bands that work most of the time at different hours it would be 40 and 20m. As a third one I would pick 80m, but antennas are a pain... CB is too high frequency to be useful for long range. Even 15m isn't very reliable. I would be content with just an MFJ-9420, 20m USB radio, which is pretty cheap. I don't use anything but CW really... My MTR with 5W on 20/30/40m covers all my needs, except SWL.

QuoteThe knowledge to answer all these questions comes from years of experience that you gain from actual day to day on air operating

Well, I'd say months, minimum... It took Ray and I a while to find which frequencies work for us at what time, and we are still experimenting. Now though, I know which band to use. If he said "let's have a sked at three" without specifying the band and frequency, I'd know where to go because of previous contacts. For the finer points of radio operating, yes, that can take years. I'm only two years in, so there are still a few things I haven't figured out...

Freax, I definitely encourage you to learn Morse code. Also, you might want to use paddles and an electronic iambic keyer. It makes much better code for sending, unless you're an expert with a bug or straight key... Unfortunately it does cost a bit more. Most modern radios have a built-in keyer that will accomodate a straight key or paddles. Keep in mind also that you can use Morse code with a flashlight or laser pointer, and in many other different ways, not just on the radio...

Gil.

Quote from: gil on September 20, 2014, 12:46:14 PM
I could make up my own "Gil code" and send it in CW...

I think you should do it. So what if you can't communicate with another living soul on the entire planet using Gil code because only you know it. ;D

QuoteAnd way ahead of you on learning morse. The hard way.

Great, it took me a year and a half... Not proud of that :-[

I spent two months in Australia more than 20 years ago, hitch-hiking from Sidney to Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth, Broome, Darwin, Alice Springs and back. Even got my Australian ultralight aircraft license! Had a great time and met wonderful people :) Maybe I'll go back on a sailboat some day...

Gil.

Quote from: Scott on September 08, 2012, 12:13:34 PM
"If SHTF, I'll just go down to the XYZ store and steal everything I need!  Like a Hummer H1!"

Don't worry about people who think they can do this with no training, no practice, and gear they've never used.  It's highly unlikely you'd ever hear them on air at all.

That kind of thinking doesn't surprise me at all, you simply can't fix stupid !  That would be the same as buying an airplane and then try to train yourself to fly it !  :P

Spot on Lamewolf.


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Don't have room to store a whole air-o-plane.  I'll store me a kit, build 'er, and then teach myself to fly 'er.  Where's that good ol' 'merican ingenoooity?
:-)

What's so funny about peace, love, and understanding?

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2720/4127800503_2fb7b6e766.jpg)\\

Well DANG! I sure didn't see THAT one comin' !


Moo-ha-ha-ha!


de RadioRay ..._  ._

That must have been a prepper who bought a plane and then decided to learn to fly solo for the first time when the SHTF lol

Or lean't to fly by reading a book 😆

Flying an airplane really isn't that difficult. Landing an airplane is even easier - in the 100 plus years of mans conquest of powered flight, we have a 100% perfect track record for bringing planes back down to earth after breaking it's surly bonds, not one single time have we ever left one up in the sky.  8)

So true 😆

QuoteBut what about the ones who have spent countless hours playing Microsoft Flight Simulator? Or what is that other one X-Plane.

You could potentially learn to fly that way, but your first few flights would really be gambles. I'd give anyone trying it a 50-50% chance of survival. If you made it a few times, then your odds would improve greatly. I learned to fly ultralights first and got about a dozen hours of dual instruction, though I had ten hours of glider instruction before that. I soloed from a beach, which was pretty cool. My first "real" airplane solo was from an international airport in a C152, but I already had 400hrs of three-axis ultralight, so it really wasn't a first solo. I have seen people teaching themselves to fly and survive, but many more don't make it... I wouldn't suggest it.

CB is great. That's how I got into radio in the 80s. Kind of limited and unreliable for long distance contacts though, but I would definitely suggest anyone to have one.

A Ham radio license is so easy to get and cheap, it really doesn't make sense not to.

Gil.

Quote from: gil on February 13, 2015, 12:48:29 AM

QuoteBut what about the ones who have spent countless hours playing Microsoft Flight Simulator? Or what is that other one X-Plane.

You could potentially learn to fly that way, but your first few flights would really be gambles. I'd give anyone trying it a 50-50% chance of survival.

Gil.

I agree.  Looking at it in reverse, I have over 1,000 landings in small planes, but I always crash a flight simulator.  And of course landing a plane isn't one of those thinghs where "if at first you don't succeed, try, try again." :o

In regards to the practicality of "needing" the legal ability to transmit on ham bands in a lawless post TEOTWAKI; it's been said here on this forum and on many others many times before and I'll say it again - the legality of it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. The real issue is having the practical real world experience to effectively use ham radio in a high stress survival situation, if you're not doing it now, you won't be doing it then. The way to get said practical real world experience is to get licensed and then be active on the bands.

Speaking of learning to fly on Microsoft Flight Sim, I'd like to tell a story about that. It's not really that this story proves anything. It's more just the fact that I like telling it. I finished my private pilots training 16 or 17 years ago when I was still living at home with my folks. After I had the ticket in my hand I acquired a copy of Microsoft flight sim and a USB yoke and rudder peddles. After teaching myself to fly the simulator (many crashed landings, Cockpitbob is right, it's a different beast when you don't have g-forces or peripheral vision cues to help). I then proceeded to teach my younger brother how to fly the simulator. I taught him to fly it just as my flight instructor had taught me to fly the real thing. I made him coordinate his own turns and not let the simulator auto-coordiante. I taught him to fly a pattern and set up on approach, when to lower the flaps, to pitch for airspeed and power for glide slope, etc. just like I had learned. Finally he went down the local FBO for his first real flight lesson. He did so well with the initial part of the flight that the instructor let him  fly the approach, he did so well flying the approach that the instructor let him flare, he flared it so well that the instructor let him touchdown. On his very first real lesson in an actual plane he had flown the entire approach to touchdown without the instructor touching the controls. It is possible then but it isn't like he did it all on his own, he did have a pretty sharp flight sim instructor if I say so myself.  8)

As far as a ham license is concerned, I second what KK0K said. I had my General class ticket for 10 years before I got an HF radio. Even though I had the license for HF I only had VHF/UHF radios at my disposal so I didn't know the first thing about actually operating HF even though I was licensed. When I did get an HF, the learning curve was steep. I made several attempts at making antennas and trying them. Some worked better than others. I'm still learning the propagation variables and how different antennas work at different ranges, on different bands, at different times of the day, etc. Just when I think I'm starting to get it all figured out it changes from summer to fall and fall to winter and everything I thought I knew doesn't work anymore and I have to learn it again. Different modes have different capabilities too. I recently started doing PSK31 and am amazed at how well it travels. I also just started learning winlink e-mail over HF and it too is a learning curve, figuring out which stations are reliable on what freqs. at what time of day. All this experimentation and learning is very time consuming and I have a long way to go yet before I feel like I'd be real conferrable doing it under pressure and less than ideal conditions. I wouldn't be doing it at all if I didn't enjoy the learning process but I do and so it's worth it to me.

So like KK0G says, it's not about the piece of paper and the legality of operating without it after a crisis. It's about having the freedom to train with your equipment, extensively test your equipment and modify and improve it as your experience grows with it. And doing all this prior to really needing it.

A flight simulator was able to raise my brother's performance to a point where he could land a C152 on a 6,100 foot long flat paved runway. Today, I fly turbo-206s into some of the shortest and most rugged mountain airstrips in the world. I don't think MS flight sim alone could prepare anybody for this kind of flying. The performance level required for this far exceeds what training in a flight sim can provide. My passengers want to know that they are flying with an  experienced mountain pilot. It's no different with radio. Messing around with CB now again will give you the experience needed to get an HF rig on the air but sometimes more than that is what is required.

Now, back to the subject of flying (what can I say? I like flying 8) )


I've been having a blast since I earned my private, flying the club 172 all over the midwest - I managed to rack up 15 hours of flight time last month, the majority of it cross country. The club set up is pretty much ideal - it's cheap (cheap being a relative term because nothing is cheap in aviation), and few other club members are flying much at all so the plane is available to me pretty much whenever I want it. So my question is, with such an ideal situation why the hell am I seriously contemplating buying an airplane?! ;D

I'm afraid that your question KK0G can't be answered reasonably. There is no reasonable reason why you need an airplane. Rather, it must be answered medically. You see, like every other pilot out there you suffer from a psychoses. You have a disease of the brain. Unfortunately, this disease has no known cure. Like so many other incurable diseases you can treat the symptoms but once in the blood stream you can't get rid of it. Like a persistant cold score, you just never know when it will flair up again. You can put up a good front, a facad of normalcy but just under the surface you are raving loon. It also acts as an addiction, the more you feed the urge the more it controls you. You must always go higher, lower, faster, slower, further, shorter. Good enough is never good enough. This is why I am convinced that the airman medical examinations are a farce. The mere fact that you are a pilot should be more than enough proof for the medial examiner that you are not right in the head and in fact are unfit to touch the controls of an aircraft. 

QuoteThis applies too with radios, if I'm defending myself and others and my family don't want to go out and get a HAM licence then what am I supposed to do? The only logical thing, give them all CB Radios.

That is a good point, as getting family members to get a Ham license is nearly impossible. In that case, CB might be the only option. Same thing for FRS or MURS radios in the U.S.

As to the cost of a Ham license, $15 for ten years in the U.S. isn't an obstacle. The cost of an HF radio isn't much more than a CB either. Take the MFJ-9420X 20m HF radio for less than $300... It beats any CB any day on reliability, because of the lower frequency. You can also get the 9440 model on 40m. Used gear also get be bought for a song.

Gil.

Quote from: vwflyer on February 13, 2015, 04:04:17 PM
I'm afraid that your question KK0G can't be answered reasonably. There is no reasonable reason why you need an airplane. Rather, it must be answered medically. You see, like every other pilot out there you suffer from a psychoses. You have a disease of the brain. Unfortunately, this disease has no known cure. Like so many other incurable diseases you can treat the symptoms but once in the blood stream you can't get rid of it. Like a persistant cold score, you just never know when it will flair up again. You can put up a good front, a facad of normalcy but just under the surface you are raving loon. It also acts as an addiction, the more you feed the urge the more it controls you. You must always go higher, lower, faster, slower, further, shorter. Good enough is never good enough. This is why I am convinced that the airman medical examinations are a farce. The mere fact that you are a pilot should be more than enough proof for the medial examiner that you are not right in the head and in fact are unfit to touch the controls of an aircraft.

Guilty as charged :-)

Take this evening for example, I just got home from the airport - which by the way has become my second home - because after work I discovered that I just HAD to fly or I might die. I had absolutely no destination in mind whatsoever and no justifiable reason to fly other than to burn some holes in the sky while I watched the sun set over the horizon. I climbed up to 3000', pulled the power way back, leaned the engine and waited for the sun to go down so I could practice night landings - which I also have little justification for since I almost always plan my cross countries to avoid night flight if possible.

I've noticed these symptoms of needing to fly seem to flare up whenever I'm at work, a family gathering, shopping, etc. and the sun is shining through a clear blue cloudless sky with a gentle breeze that coincidentally happens to be lined up with the runway at my home airport.

Freax, very good. My empathy is with you on government control.

You're correct about going Galt. No issues there.

Communities are what will survive in post TEOTWAWKI, which may be fast approaching from a banking and finance standpoint, or worse if it spills over into a hot war.

Gill mentioned several options. Another one you may not have considered is satellite repeaters. You can hit one of those for 15 minutes or so with a baofeng and a 2m yagi, at least what i've seen on the Tube of You.

We take for granted a lot of things here in the US, which we'll lose if we don't exercise them.  73's

I hitchhiked across Australia around 1992 for a couple months... Had a great time, but of course it is different from living there, and I suspect things have changed quite a bit since then. All guns were taken away after that and the government became more pervasive and socialistic in nature. I would not live there now, but I could have then, from what i saw... Lots of empty space for sure.

Getting into sailing now, I have read about people getting in trouble down there, boats confiscated, pets put in quarantine for weeks, etc. and for frivolous reasons. Lots more regulations to abide by, and it is too easy to miss something when you are just visiting. So if I ever get to cross the Pacific, I will be skipping Australia for a more Northern route. It is unlikely that I'll ever get that far though :o

The question is: Where are the last free countries on this earth? We can't complain too much here, but things are changing for the worst too. Unfortunately it seems like the more free countries are the corrupted and dangerous ones, sort of the last Wild West places. I'd rather slip someone a $100 bill under the table than getting arrested for some stupid law I had no idea about... Even if that means not being able to find toilet paper easily... Leeches and thieves are taking over the "civilized" world, and I saddens me to watch it happen. It's easy for me though, I am single and can go anywhere without much stress. If I had a family to take care of, I would feel trapped by the system.

Radio is something big Brother does not like. You can't shut it down or control it. Ham radio operators of course don't like to make waves. It's just a hobby, with an undeniable usefulness in emergencies, which is why we still can enjoy it, but for how long? This is why it is important to promote it now and get a large user base with voting power. Not that voting makes a big difference mind you, but it might just buy us some time. That is one reason to get a license. CB users have no voice as a group. As much as I don't like the ARRL, they do serve a purpose.

Right now focus is on controlling the Internet by defining it as a utility. What's next? I hope they fail with that one. If the trend continues, I will be voting with my feet. I want to travel anyway, become a permanent tourist. Hopefully when the SHTF, if it does, I'll be sipping a Cognac and smoking a cigar on some remote island 8)

Gil.

What's the most free country in the world? That one's easy - the United States of America, no question about it. Freedom is literally what our country was founded on and against overwhelming odds we managed to win a war against the tyrannical world super power of the time to gain that freedom. The basis of Americas founding is unprecedented in human history, no other state has ever been formed that gives all rights to the people and only limited power to the state. Do we have our problems in this country? You bet your ass we do and we've lost a lot of freedom over the last two centuries as we've strayed further and further from what our founding fathers handed down to us. Even so, there is still no other place on the the planet that enjoys the freedoms we do here in the U.S.A., there's a reason why millions of immigrants have come to this country and continue to do so today. Would I ever leave this country for another? I guess I can't say with certainty that I'd never leave as who knows what the future might hold, but I'd venture to wager that the chances of me ever leaving my country are pretty damn slim.

Freax if money is an issue for you then there's always the option of getting a job. You've said a number of times that you would like to relocate to the U.S.. Have you actually looked into that in any detail ? You may find that there are barriers to doing that due to a lack of financial resources and education.

Every country has its issues and that includes Australia . Tony Abbott desperately wants to bring in a number of policies in the name of welfare reform. These include compulsory income management as well as only getting welfare payments for 6 months out of 12 in every calendar year. For the most part I'm anti those reforms. However there are times when I hear about people who are intractability abusing the system then one starts to rethink their stance.


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Self-sufficiency comes in many forms and what you're describing, over-population and lack of economic opportunity, is pervasive everywhere. Welcome to global depression 2.0. In nature, over-population is a self-correcting condition.

You're self taught and have critical thinking skills. I would make the best of the present situation while you can.

Unfortunately, whether or not you believe the bible, things aren't going to get better anytime soon. At least not if TPTB have anything to do with it. They're too greedy. So, if those in power won't lift a finger to help the plight of man, what hope is there? Only one, to resist, and it comes back to self-sufficiency. It doesn't help that you're stuck on a prison island with little chance of escape. It sounds like you're already making the best of your circumstances.

If you believe the bible, then there's that hope, too. Either way, the world is what it is, and there isn't too much anyone can do about. On a local scale, there's lot's you can do regarding building community.

I can't help but think Australia is a legacy of the British feudal system, with much the same problems, made worse by over-crowding and socialist policies. The natural end of these dynamics will be simply wide scale riots, starvation, and death, thereby correcting the population problems and the big reset. If the problems are, there are too many people for too few jobs, there are three alternative, providing social welfare, which we've seen only creates generations of dependence. Providing more jobs, or culling the population. I think we're headed for the big cull. But we'll see.

Keep your head down, Freax, which may be difficult, depending on what you meant by your height being a detriment to employment.

Honestly Freax, you need to spend less time on the Internet, and more time interacting with real happy people who will challenge your negative view by the life they live, rather than just re-enforce it, which is what selective reading on the Internet does.  Your view of reality is so skewed, with so many errors of fact in many of your posts, it's rather sad. 

I really feel for you man, and would like to help,, even if it's just as someone you can talk to.  Send me a PM with your phone number if you like.  I'll be happy to call you, and we can chew the fat.

Quote from: freax on March 08, 2015, 08:45:39 PM
This thread will be pleased to know that I've just found a job.

Hey Freax, CONGRATULATIONS!  (http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o170/cockpitbob/Emoticons/party_zps2d69794f.gif)