I want to get an all in one radio as soon I get my license.
I like that 817 a lot, its small and great for backpacking and camping obviously. Also, the small current drain is really appreciated. The only thing I am worried about is the 5W of power.
Hows the practical experience using 5W? Can you reach distant stations easily or is it really dependent on the atmospheric conditions?
Does the additional 95W make a huge difference that justify hauling double the weight and size on the radio + 1 x 2-3kg battery in the backpack?
I also read somewhere the 817 has a built in antenna tuner and the 857 doesnt.
Because I will most probably buy only one radio I dont want to regret my decision so I am asking on practical experience.

I found an interesting test about the power consumption. But I am still suspicious about 5W and the reach. The guy says he only could reach 600km away stations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_u1ss3GXcI

I have a 817 and during a two months a 897.

Both have the same menus and submenús etc.

I prefer the polivalence of 817.

Anyway, 817,857&897 are riggs designed 14 years ago. Today, 2018, I prefer SDRs like MCHF (or RS-918 chinnese clone) or Elecraft kx2/kx3.

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Quote from: CroPrepper on March 02, 2018, 08:48:52 AMI also read somewhere the 817 has a built in antenna tuner ...

Are you certain? If that is so, why did my ham radio vendor insist I needed this one?

http://www.nevadaradio.co.uk/antenna-accessories/antenna-tuning-units/ldg-z817

You don't need 100W. It always depends on the ionosphere. Not much difference between 5W and 100W. When a band is open, it's open, period. For SSB, 10W is better, but using CW, 5W is a lot. I almost never use more than 5W, often less, and my most powerful radio has 30W. Lots of people believe that you need lots of power, but it isn't so. You need a good antenna that radiates your power well, and know which bands to use at certain times.

Of course if you want to do contests or lots of DX, then power helps. It does help also for VHF/UHF, and that might be the only reason to get the 857. For HF, not needed. So, it depends if you will be doing mostly CW or SSB, and if you will be using VHF/UHF, which is great using SSB.

Personally I would get the 817. Learn to use QRP power will make you a better operator. You will be frustrated sometimes, but it will work most of the time and you will learn more.

Gil.

Gil thanks a lot for sharing your experience. I intend to do mostly ssb, cw is a nice to know skill that I intend to learn in near future but for now not the primary mode.
I'd really like to do DX. Even the 200€ less price for 817 could be good for getting an amp if the 5W would be too low. Altogether I like the 817 more, and the very low power consumption. I am in a dilema.

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Quote from: CroPrepper on March 03, 2018, 08:07:53 AM
Gil thanks a lot for sharing your experience. I intend to do mostly ssb, cw is a nice to know skill that I intend to learn in near future but for now not the primary mode.
I'd really like to do DX. Even the 200€ less price for 817 could be good for getting an amp if the 5W would be too low. Altogether I like the 817 more, and the very low power consumption. I am in a dilema.

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Look at the current draw on receive. That is probably the most Important factor for portable operations, not power...

Gil

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After a long research I finally decided to go for the 817ND. I will use it 90% in the field anyway so small size, weight and low power consumption is very important. Regarding the 100W, I'd probably get one of those chinese 100W amps, they are pretty good actually (as far as I could interpret those reviews) and use it only at home.
Going for a 100W rig will bust my budget if I want to use the radio off the grid for several days, additionally hauling all that stuff in the backpack is not possible. Considering the 857 draws over 1 Amp on receive it would drain my battery too fast.
Thanks for the input guys.  ;)

Good choice. Believe me, you really don't need 100W! IMHO 5W CW or 30W SSB is plenty.

Gil.

CrpPrepper, you will love the FT-817ND after you get familiar withe the features. I bought mine about 6 months ago and love using it everywhere, in the shack, out in the field, even in the car driving down the road, it's a great radio.

Joel
N6ALT

Quote from: caulktel on March 20, 2018, 11:47:01 AM
CrpPrepper, you will love the FT-817ND after you get familiar withe the features. I bought mine about 6 months ago and love using it everywhere, in the shack, out in the field, even in the car driving down the road, it's a great radio.

Joel
N6ALT

Thanks Joel,

I think so too. Now I have to make a decision on what antenna type to use. Arghg [emoji3]

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I use all different kinds of antennas depending on the situation but my all time favorite is the End Fed Half wave or the EFHW. You just can't beat them for simplicity, performance, and ease of use. Throw a wire up in a tree or use a fishing pole and operate. No need to buy them either as they are super simple to build.

Joel
N6ALT

Quote from: caulktel on March 20, 2018, 01:55:10 PM
I use all different kinds of antennas depending on the situation but my all time favorite is the End Fed Half wave or the EFHW. You just can't beat them for simplicity, performance, and ease of use. Throw a wire up in a tree or use a fishing pole and operate. No need to buy them either as they are super simple to build.

Joel
N6ALT

I read a lot that people say using a tuner with EFHW has losses, that it's better to use resonant antennas without a tuner. Makes sense? I would still prefer using just a wire with a tuner than for example a linked dipole with resonant wire lengths for each band. Would save a lot of work and time between switching the bands. But if QRP with 5W, every mW of loss is not appreciated.

Anyway, I stumbled across the Chinese Xiegu 5105. Optically seems like a nice radio with neat usability. But deep inside I still tend to lean towards the Yaesu 817ND because it's field tested and proven tech. The reviews of the 5105 ain't that great either and it seems like it has a lot of technical issues (when reading reviews).

Using a tuner with any antenna introduces losses, however a EFHW is cut to resonance so no tuner needed unless you are going to use it on other bands. The EFHW's I use have 1:60 auto transformer to match the wire to the coax. I guess technically the transformer is a tuner of sorts, but fairly efficient. The best antenna would be a plain old dipole cut to resonance, but you have to have lots of feed line, (at least 20ft on 20 meters) to reach the apex and that introduces a loss in itself. So you will fine out what the rest of us have found out, there is no perfect antenna, so use what works for you, for me that's a EFHW.

That Xiegu 5105 is a nice looking radio but a little pricey for me, I think I'll stick with my FT-817ND.

Joel
N6ALT

I'd say don't worry about the losses in the transformer, it isn't much. Dipoles have an impedance of about 71 Ohms, so it isn't perfect either. You can get a perfect impedance with a quarter wave vertical and 45deg angled radials, but it isn't easy to set up. The EFHW is very easy to set and very efficient. Since you match the impedance at the antenna, you have less to no cable losses, and that can be more important. A tuner at the antenna is always better than at the radio. For me, from experience, end-feds are more practical, and very efficient when it's a half-wave...

Gil.