There are folks that determine themselves to be very "left-leaning" - even here...the difference is...they think we're headed for some form of the apocalypse too (at least those I've spoken to).

I've become more libertarian in my political persuasions - not that I believe that will be the thing that saves us - it will just divide us three ways, instead of two.

We have allowed things to get to the point that they don't look recoverable -  doesnt mean I won't try to work to improve it, it just means I don't think politics (as they're currently defining themselves) are the answer to the problems we have. Somehow, those that can & should be working, have got it in their heads that this country of individuals owes them something? More takers than earners mean the system can't be sustained - something has to give - therefore some of us prepare for any/all eventualities.

I would think folks come here are preparing for the worst - it would be provocative for folks with a determined left-leaning agenda to come here and try and talk us OUT of prepping, or out of of including radio in our prepps.

However; I've been on larger prepping oriented forums where that has happened. Not sure why anyone would waste time with someone who deliberately seeks to be obtuse...

I'm thinking Gil might have a warning alarm at the QTH that automatically flushes  folks who decidedly do NOT agree that the world is sliding off it's moorings...and that radio is something that can keep like-minded folks tethered together when it happens....

Hum, interesting.. I think few would try to dissuade people from prepping.. The only ones I have seen were wives making fun of their prepper husbands behind their back.. They probably would rather see that money used for spa treatments.. I don't think prepping is really a matter of politics. People are starting to realize that Democrat and Republican politicians answer to the same masters. Anyway, I do know leftists who know how to live off the land, hippie style.. There is a whole subculture (Rainbow people) who live most of the year in the woods and learn skills long forgotten. I don't think they would last in a real collapse, but they do have some know-how. As I have said, everyone is welcome here. I would put a stop though to any pinkish proselytising; being that I am a strong proponent of private property! One of my favorite authors is Ayn Rand, if that tells you guys anything  ;) I classify people in two categories: Producers and parasites. Since most leftists believe they are entitled to money they haven't worked for, I don't like them, the same way I wouldn't like someone who robbed me at gunpoint in a dark alley. At least the guy mugging me is taking a risk, he has some balls.. The same can't be said of a welfare recipient. Morally, it is the same thing, maybe even a little worse. I should require every new member to read "Atlas Shrugged"  ;D

Gil.

Interesting fork of this discussion -

I've come to see the Left/Right paradigm is an artifice to control the discussion.  Classical Poly-Sci-101 is left = Socialism and Right = Fascism.  (Yet the Nazis were fascist 'National Socialists' - go figger...)  For me to put this into a linear scale, I would have to put free at one end and slave at the other end of the line. Call it anything that you like, but for me - it really does not matter what uniforms those who try to  - or actually DO - enslave a world: they are evil.  There is a Marxist concept (though it existed long before) of 'controlled opposition'.  We've all seen TV/radio talk show hosts with one Boss: one is a rabid 'left winger' and the other is a 'right-wing kook', both working for the same station, both adhering to the stations/network editorial policy, though their particular feed teams/writers are often separate. Media and politicians in general (from my experience) are like TV wrestling: it's a show. Hulk Hogan is NOT really trying to kill, Jesse The Body Ventura - it's an act and a well paying one too.  Same, same with the left/right at high level.  The manipulators at high level will definitely fight each other (within limits) for the bigger piece of the pie, but I have news for you: WE are the 'pie'.  I eventually came to the belief, after seeing strings pulled in several parts of the world, becoming aware of the murdering in the multiple millions, the actual top players were unharmed.  After all - it is not THEIR blood or bloodlines killed in the wars or in the streets - it is ours.

Either way though - WE are being manipulated on a grand scale. With almost  seven billion people on this Earth, I refuse to be channeled into one of two "sides"'.  There is no such thing as 'BOTH sides' - there are generally MANY ways to do most things, including not doing them at all.  Even in a divorce there is His Side, Her Side and then the way that it REALLY is.

Here are 'two sides' for you: 

"You want to live from the production of your own hands and there others who ALSO want to live from the production of your hands." // and I believe that there are those who love to watch us all fight over it. //

I've snipped this posting much shorter than it was. No reason to drift too far off the prepping theme, but if the controlled media wanted a nation of preppers, 'They' could do that in short order, just like the way they have people wearing baggy pants that show their butts, hankies on head with ball caps on backwards, shiney spinning hub caps and buying NEW cars and other things they cannot afford. 'Preppers', 'survivalists' and 'gun nuts' are a media creation to eliminate or at least prejudice the thought process required to plan and prep before it occurs. After-all: If you do not 'need' Big Brother, then you are a threat to Big Brother.


de RadioRay ..._ ._






 

Agreed - almost like the current leadership of BOTH political parties have read things like; "1984" and "Brave New World" as a manuals...instead of the warnings they were intended to be - warnings as to what happens if you keep feeding your individual power to the state in exchange for peace, safety, and eventually...comfort...

Quote from: White Tiger on July 07, 2013, 03:03:30 AM
Agreed - almost like the current leadership of BOTH political parties have read things like; "1984" and "Brave New World" as a manuals...instead of the warnings they were intended to be - warnings as to what happens if you keep feeding your individual power to the state in exchange for peace, safety, and eventually...comfort...

I would suggest their core curriculum included more like Engels-Marx-Alinsky.
Most of the current dead elephant party are going along to get along, one hoping to survive based on being useful idiots to the other. But their ditch has been dug, and the quicklime ordered, make no mistake.

It's about power and who has it. Economic power, self-defense capability, or general self-sufficiency in day-to-day living is a threat to the playbook.

Have to agree that the left-right classification system is mostly for control.  I read somewhere that it originated sometime around the 1789 french revolution, at the french national assembly, loyalists to the crown would sit to the right of the king, supporters of the revolution would sit to the left. 

Would think that would make it easy to decide who goes to the gillotine  :o

I've always thought that the current mix of ideas in the left camps , or right camps for that matter, would never normally coexist with each other. 

Pigeon hole something, and it becomes boxed in and neatly packaged, for control

Allan

At the risk of possibly alienating myself I'll reveal my political stance; I'm a true Libertarian. I know, probably a big shocker there 8). Don't violate my or anyone else's rights (including forcibly taking the fruits of my labor against my will) and we'll get along just fine no matter how cockamamie your ideas are - as long as they don't violate my or anyone else's rights (I see a pattern developing here ;)).

I recommend everyone read "For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto" by Murray Rothbard http://mises.org/rothbard/newlibertywhole.asp. It explains how libertarianism is the only sustainable 'political' system in a logical way that I could never hope to convey here in a forum post.

Libertarians: we want to take over the world and then............ leave you alone.

Quote http://mises.org/rothbard/newlibertywhole.asp

Excellent, thanks!

Gil.

Quote from: gil on July 07, 2013, 07:04:33 PM

Quote http://mises.org/rothbard/newlibertywhole.asp

Excellent, thanks!

Gil.

You're welcome. This extremely detailed book was a huge eye opener for me and it answered all of those 'why?' questions I've had since I was literally a youth; Why do I have to pay taxes against my will? Why does an authority figure have the power to tell me what I can and can't do as long as I don't violate someone else's rights? etc. The book didn't actually answer those questions, what it did was explain I was right to ask those questions and show that I wasn't the only person asking 'why?'.

Yes, I've had sort of a long standing problem with authority 8)

QuoteThis extremely detailed book was a huge eye opener for me and it answered all of those 'why?' questions I've had since I was literally a youth

"Atlas Shrugged" did that for me...

Gil.

Ignoring historical labels and just using the terms left and right the way they are used day to day in the US, "left" generally means using government to solve perceived problems, while "right" represents allowing people the freedom to solve their own problems without government interference.  One can be a leftist on one issue and a rightist on another and one would characterize oneself depending on where they are on most issues of the day.

It seems to me that if you become a prepper, you have concluded that the government is not capable of protecting you against some set of risks, e.g. natural disasters, war, terrorism, crime, economic collapse, etc.  If you have reached that conclusion, then you have basically concluded you are on the right for that set of issues.  There will also be a tendency to move right on other issues, e.g. if you need to prep, wouldn't it be nice to have lower taxes so you can use more of your money to do a better job of prepping?

This doesn't mean you have to be on one side all the time, but I think it does say something about your thinking and that is why prepping has such a bad name on the left.

Quote from: Geek on July 08, 2013, 09:04:18 AM
Ignoring historical labels and just using the terms left and right the way they are used day to day in the US, "left" generally means using government to solve perceived problems, while "right" represents allowing people the freedom to solve their own problems without government interference.  One can be a leftist on one issue and a rightist on another and one would characterize oneself depending on where they are on most issues of the day.

It seems to me that if you become a prepper, you have concluded that the government is not capable of protecting you against some set of risks, e.g. natural disasters, war, terrorism, crime, economic collapse, etc.  If you have reached that conclusion, then you have basically concluded you are on the right for that set of issues.  There will also be a tendency to move right on other issues, e.g. if you need to prep, wouldn't it be nice to have lower taxes so you can use more of your money to do a better job of prepping?

This doesn't mean you have to be on one side all the time, but I think it does say something about your thinking and that is why prepping has such a bad name on the left.

I'd say that's a pretty accurate assessment.

I find this part of Geek's posting especially cogent:

"It seems to me that if you become a prepper, you have concluded that the government is not capable of protecting you against some set of risks..."

Self reliance, even in part, is an act requiring personal responsibility for your own life. It is also generally seen as a threat by those who aim to control you and those who WANT TO BE controlled.


>de RadioRay ..._ ._

Quote from: RadioRay on July 08, 2013, 12:35:14 PMSelf reliance, even in part, is an act requiring personal responsibility for your own life. It is also generally seen as a threat by those who aim to control you and those who WANT TO BE controlled.


>de RadioRay ..._ ._

My emphasis above, and an important statement borne out by history. Do not lose focus of the fact that part of a statist's strength is derived from their own constituency, those who are stakeholders & have resigned themselves to feed at the trough. You are a threat to them as well; mass graves around this big blue marble are full of those who were betrayed by "neighbors" who didn't want their apple cart upset. Jes' sayin'.

Quote from: KC9TNH on July 08, 2013, 01:01:31 PM

Quote from: RadioRay on July 08, 2013, 12:35:14 PMSelf reliance, even in part, is an act requiring personal responsibility for your own life. It is also generally seen as a threat by those who aim to control you and those who WANT TO BE controlled.


>de RadioRay ..._ ._

My emphasis above, and an important statement borne out by history. Do not lose focus of the fact that part of a statist's strength is derived from their own constituency, those who are stakeholders & have resigned themselves to feed at the trough. You are a threat to them as well; mass graves around this big blue marble are full of those who were betrayed by "neighbors" who didn't want their apple cart upset. Jes' sayin'.

I agree other than part of a statist's strength is derived from their own constituency. Actually all of the states power is derived from the governed themselves. Think about a hypothetical situation where all of the governed (and I mean every last single citizen) refuses to be governed by the state any longer, the state would be completely powerless to do anything about it. The state simply cannot survive without the power given it by it's citizens.