Registration will lead to confiscation

Started by Frosty, April 13, 2013, 10:40:28 am

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Saw this letter over at JW,R's site yesterday, and after a good laugh I just had to email the JW,R himself with my thoughts on the writer's suggestion that the only way to learn how to avoid DHS drones intercepting/DF'ing your comms starts with registering your name with the FCC.   Doubt he'll post it, too short and sarcastic, but it got me thinking about the whole amateur licensing requirement again. 

Then this morning I was reading an article over on zerohedge, and saw a link to this:   johngaltfla has been around the survival scene for a long time.  We frequented some of the same forums pre-Y2k, and while I didn't always agree with him he's certainly no idiot.  I don't read his new site much but the title of that article caught my eye, and he brings up an interesting point:

QuoteIn the past, especially in periods of massive dislocation where the risks of civil war and revolution permeate a nation, radio transmitters and shortwave receivers where confiscated with little regard to personal freedoms. But don?t worry, remember the following phrase:

    ?It Can?t Happen Here.?

Until it does.

He doesn't mention it, but I've wondered too (in my more paranoid musings) if the "no code" change might just have been a way for DHS/FCC to expand their database of known amateur operators with confiscation in mind.   Make it easy and cheap to obtain a license, and they'll volunteer their names/addresses/SSNs for our database in case we ever need to round them or their equipment up later?   Thoughts?


While I'm no fan of big-G, I think this is one area where the bar was simply lowered to attract more folks.
Just my personal opinion.

[Snark warning] Dear FCC: If you really want me to sit the Extra exam again, ditch the Smith chart and the stuff about Earth-Moon & satellites I could care less about. [/snark]

History shows that the G's capability to actually carry out a long-term conspiracy, with no discovery, is severely limited. Information sharing on a minute-by-minute between lovers of liberty drives them nuts, which I call a perk. So spread the RF around any way you want.

The idea of making code an elective follows even a trend in the military; you'd be hard-put to find a modern Army Signaleer that knows the code. I've read that even the SF commo course awhile back went from 18wpm, to 15, then 12, and finally ditched Morse altogether as a requirement.

What we should probably focus on is their current willingness to completely forego due-process in daily actions. They are setting the stage, but only if people stand for it. Remember that it wasn't Hitler that created registries so that he could confiscate firearms. It had already been done for him by the Weimar republic, "in the name of public safety." His henchmen just had to read the lists.

My $.02 adjusted for the internet price you paid for it.


April 13, 2013, 02:20:03 pm #2 Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 07:49:24 am by RadioRay
Hmmm -

The survival blog article could have used some more research.  I won't go into it here...


While it's entirely possible that any government can decide to confiscate anything , including radios, the simple fact of the matter is that radio in general and shortwave in particular is no longer a great way to reach 'The Masses' and hence not much of a threat to TPTB. In a world of flashy SmartPhones tied into the Internet/Tower grid, it's routine for Big Brother/Sister to track every bit, bite & stream along with location coming from people and it's easy too, because it's all carried on on a thin thread of ASCII, rather than spread through hundreds of analog, private and commercial formats as it was before we were on the internet. This is routinely colated with phone records, Fed records, financial records, travel and 'co-location' data, psych evals based upon your distilled data, . . .  As Arlo Guthery used to say: "Inspected, detected and reeeeee-jected...". Internet is wonderful, as is most 'bait'.

Radio can be a work around for that sort of total surveillance - sure, but only in theory or in very narrow practice. Clandestine use of radio requires a LOT of training and for those who live after doing it for a few months or years, it gives you experience in communicating in ways not easily expolited. In practical use however, very few people listen to radio for anything more than to stop thinking ("amusement" literally means: "without thought") A mass awakening via Internet is far more frightening to tyrants than the faint odds that old codgers like me, might receive that 'GO CODE' message, grab my old patrol cap, light my pipe and begin the geriatric guerrilla war. Really,  yes "They" might just decide to confiscate ham radios and etc. .  However, this is not WW II, or Soviet occupied Europe where radios were the daily life's blood and etc.  This is 21st century USA and we're more interested in tweeting pictures of various 'stars' underpants, ball games and etc. on our 'Smart' devices. If it's not feeding our craven desire for entertainment within seconds, we move on to something that does.

As for the issue ALWAYS brought up about ---

>:( >:( >:('I don't want a ham license because I don't want to be on The List.'  >:( >:( >:(

Well, since Internet is one, GIANT giant surveillance system and this sort of thing is being said on various 'survival sites' on the internet, how 'bout we just state the obvious: you're already on 'the list' & radio direction finding is the least of our worries, because if there is a specific list, we are already on The List (RED or BLUE - your choice  ;^) of people interested in radio, just-like people interested in guns, or kayaking or knitting.   Internet is amazing and I believe that it's as pivotal as the printing press in how it COULD enable change by information transformation, it is also not a panacea.  Neither is radio, but being MUCH further down the food chain, radio - especially ham or shortwave radio is just not likely a significant problem to those who want to rule us even more brutally.  I hope that's correct.

Another factor:  Most Preppers, survivalist and etc. actually lack the small amount of self discipline to learn even the SIMPLE basics for an entry level ham license.  Really! It is not that it's difficult, //in fact it's wonderfully easy!// it's that it's work.  It's been my experience that the guys pounding their chests and declaring to all the world that they and their 'group' will march five abreast, bare footed through the snow and fight black NWO helicopters using a broken bottle as a weapon - well, if they're not willing to take a 20 question test with FREE study materials from a few old fat guys like me, then I pretty much blow-off their liklihood of ever being voted 'Rambo of the Month'

and getting that much coveted , reserved parking space with their name on it, in front of the Piggly-Wiggly for their tank.

Naaaah - "They" might just kill us all, or we might have a great life and many children and grandchildren.  Only God knows.

My guess is that, should TSHTF, those who can consistantly shoot, move and communicate best and continue to do so to the end of hostilities will win: y'know "WAR" is like that.  However, as long as the masses are content to watch Disrobed Housewives of New Jersey or Who Want's To Schtoink a Millionaire?  on the TV, there is no danger to those in the top strata who think themselves to be our owners.

DIT Happens,

>de RadioRay

??? - This Sermon Is Available on DVD for a $50 Offering to the Right Reverend RadioRay -  :o
"When we cannot do the good we would, we must be ready to do the good we can."  ~ Matthew Henry


Well said Ray. Moreover, prepping is about survival, not putting one in harm's way... There was much cheering and bravado at the onset of the last Civil War. That changed quickly when people started dropping like flies on both sides... Thank God we are far from anything like that, besides what some are saying, and even hoping for. I've seen these Internet warriors on many forums, covering many hobbies and activities. Like that "Rambo of The Month!" Take that guy and put him into some Olympic event, and see how it pans out... Wouldn't last one race/match, whatever... Much talking...

Radio, and Ham operators are no threat. Nobody under 45 owns a short wave radio anymore. Not to say it isn't useful of course, that's what this forum is about. If things ever go bad, I want to hear about it, so I can walk the other way, not towards trouble.

Confiscation? Unlikely. If it ever got to that, we'd have much bigger problems to face that surrendering radios...

The big problem these days is the lack of interest and education about politics. I am routinely floored about the lack of understanding most people have on how the world actually works. And these people vote! They vote because they need the handouts. I've met college students who could not place Africa on a map! No kidding. How could these people possibly elect a reasonable government?

Well, hopefully reason will prevail, though I'm not holding my breath. In the mean time, I am making sure I am self-sufficient, stay in good shape and am ready to head the other way... If I owned land and had spent most of my life working on it, I might have a different opinion, but I don't. At the slightest hint of travel restrictions, I'll be out of here faster than you can say "where to?" Actually, I am starting to think that a few years abroad might not be such a bad idea... Or maybe move to a more "remote" locale.

Anyway, enough rambling... Enjoy the week-end  :)



Unfortunately we are losing our freedom slowly, sort of like the boiled frog.  Ignore guns or radios for a moment.  Do you think it is okay for some TSA cretin to stick his hands inside your pants?  What kind of country would allow such a thing?  Do you even think about the fact that is going on day to day?  When do you conclude we have lost?


Quote from: RadioRay on April 13, 2013, 02:20:03 pm
.  As Arlo Guthery used to say: "Inspected, detected and reeeeee-jected...". 

Odd how I think of somewhat different lyrics from Arlo:

Comin' into Los Angeleeze,
Bringin' in a couple of keys
Don't touch my bags, if you puhleeze,
Mr. customs man

And speaking of governmental  confiscation of our radio stash, probably useful to consider what Kuwaiti citizen 9K2DZ did during the 1st gulf war.  Stick a couple of old useless rigs just inside the front door.  Keeps the jackbooted thugs from discovering the real stash. 

Check out the vids at


News of confiscation would spread so fast, there would be no way to enforce it.



Quote from: RadioRay on April 13, 2013, 02:20:03 pmA mass awakening via Internet is far more frightening to tyrants...
Word. (as the kids say)

And this has been getting experienced. Bloggers - on that very internet - are the equivalent of the poster hangers of the past, along with other duties that befit an Auxiliary. And Ray is right; they DO NOT like that because they view it as their venue.

Still, resources are finite and it takes a pretty good self-illuminating flare to make the giant turn the eye. But it can, and has, happened. When your net response is really slow and you run your periodic traceroute (you do that, right?) and find your stuff is now passing through somewhere in Northern Virginia first, you'll know you should've kept a lower profile.

I don't see confiscation of radios as first on the list or even second, although that has happened in history. As Ray alluded to, most give it not a thought until a simple receiver becomes precious. But they first have to take something else; as gil says if they get around to radios, you've already allowed some other things to happen.

White Tiger

Don't think I'd dismiss or minimize anything you hear from or about this group.

Remember Woodrow Wilson? It was his administration that signed into law the Radio Act of 1912 which established that amateurs would be limited to transmitting signals that were below a wavelength of 200 meters (1.5 MHz). This limitation on frequency was in response to the governments ongoing conflict between amateur radio operators and the U.S. Navy and private corporations - each wanted total control of, what at the time, was the best frequencies. I remind those that this was the first limitations of free speech and only came incrementally, but emphatically. It was the first volley by those who wanted to limit the power of "the masses" they feared, and provided for future expansion of authority of limiting and regulating the private sector (Radio Act of 1927 and '28 that became the current FCC).

You can read all about Wilson's many sins, the point is, relegating amateurs to the high frequencies was meant to banish us to useless frequencies. The hope was that this "nudge" would be enough to cause the masses to lose was not foreseen that scientific breakthroughs would yield technology that would allow the pastime to grow exponentially...

The point is, they intended to deny the ability for the common man to interfere with government and corporatism.

Starting to sound familiar?

It pays to be vigilant. I'm thinking along the lines of what WA4STO's story about the Kuwaiti amateur who foiled a similar attempt...
If you're looking for me, you're probably looking in the wrong place.


April 14, 2013, 07:09:05 am #9 Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 07:45:05 am by RadioRay
WARNING  -  Long, involved, caffeine fueled posting to follow.    WARNING

For point-to-point communication over more than shouting distance, ham radio is still the best that we commonly have available. It's excellent for keeping in touch, for passing messages outside of commercial infrastructure and if a person is willing to carry the larger 'skill burden' of learning to use it efficiently, is still VERY effective. Remember that what we're doing as a 'hobby' was top shelf 'gummit' methodology only a few decades ago.  I find it ironic how many 'survivalists' think that they have primitive skills enough to survive a total socio-economic collapse //99% have never even been solo-camping// , yet moan loudly that Morse code, for example, "is so old fashioned...".  Moo-ha-ha-ha!

For mass communication to reach a broad swath of people, radio COULD be tremendous, but likely will not rise to the top as a guerrilla media tool in developed countries, as long as the 'masses' have easy access to ENTERTAINMENT and reasonably convenient inter-personal communication via another means - such as Internet.  As alluded to by others, Internet has already far outstripping it's governmental throttle.  While Internet IS a superb 'collection tool' for politicians to control and eliminate opposition ,it is also not 100% under their control in many ways, such as the ability to instantly spread of information to the globe. Almost anyone, almost anywhere can upload a video of abuse, write an article on political process and their thoughts on correction of the present course & etc. and POST IT TO THE WORLD. This kind of POWER USED TO BE EXCLUSIVELY CONTROLLED,even moreso than access to weapons.  The reason being that the contents of the average National Guard Armory are nothing , compared to ideas which have gone viral in a formerly controlled society. There is a VERY good reason why the 1st amendment is first and the second amendment is there to support & defend it.  // Ps. I believe in the Ten Laws upon which we were founded, but that's another topic...//   If we , from a nation of 330 million or so, had even ONE PERCENT stand-up and say 'NO!' and mean it, it would be game-over for petite-tyrants.  That is why the control of mass-media is so important to everyone involved.  As long as we are brain washed, we are conquered.

What I love about radio though is that RADIO can reach millions people without traceability.  Re-read that last part.  whether I am sitting in an apartment in L.A. or on a mountain side in Idaho, that same HF radio signal can inform me of happenings around the globe and unlike Internet, there is no system finger print or URL, ISP. Radios present no avenue to insert malware, Trojans or surveillance software and etc. to track and eventually kill me and my friends.  There is nothing requiring radio to be wired into a specific location. With internet access, even if I worked through various , unassociated WiFi access points to sneak service on the sly through proxies  (a loop hole 'they' are trying to close with Internet ID and other methods), using computers not associated with me & etc. the simple matter is that I can have Trojan Horse trackers injected into a PC, have a nearest location by IP address and all kinds of things happening automatically, like instant scan of all surveillance cameras, cell phones , drones, credit card, phone and other records, time-lined to my access event to find me, of which I will be totally unaware until my door is kicked in at three in the morning.  Are there countermeasures ? - sure - but with computers operating in the GHz, it's tough to keep ahead of the things which can be used against me, an old 'analog hardware man'.  If you think that this is unreasonable, do some websearches about reporters and activists in some of the regimes in other nations, and how they use internet in a tech-savy way to get their information in/out and what happens when they fail. The anonymity of radio reception is a boon for the info-guerrilla - if there are still free transmitters on the air, OUTSIDE of the field of control of the occupying power. That can be political or physical control.

Bottom line:  One thing I learned fighting the communists overseas was from their own manuals and that is -

All war is "psycho-political".

Whether it's the Roman legions, the 82nd Airborne or a street gang, they are there to place someone's will over yours.  Traditionally, this was done with blades, bullets & beatings.  This is not always efficient though. If you're trying to rob a nation, you don't want to burn it to the ground, when burning one in ten of it's citizens is sufficient, especially when most of them are know to be vocal in their opposition. This leaves more plunder available to steal!  //Woo-Hoo!//

As we entered the 20th century, two new weapons of mass control entered the world:  mass media & mass psychology.  These weapons (film, radio, TV)  were seized almost immediately.  In the USA, the inventors of radio (hams) were 'banished' to the frequencies WhiteTiger mentioned - the 'useless wasteland below 200 meters'. In the USA , this was done to take the useful radio spectrum and give it to the 'network' monopoly which was set-up to make national broadcasting a controllable and exclusive weapon of mass control: the fact that it was wildy profitable was a bonus. It's SO blatant, that we don't even see it:  ABC,NBC,CBS and later the CNN tribe joined in.  While there were the big three names, control was centralized.  For example: there is NO 2nd amendment network.  In short: the scientific application of propaganda, though the media of the controlled networks were used quite effectively to produce multiple generations of 'happy slaves', who chant tyrant serving slogans such as "My Country Right or Wrong!". No - 'my country right or fix it!' would be more in-line with our desire to be free and our past heritage of being free , at least for the VERY short period of time in which we Americans were free.

What frightened tyrants in the past?  The Soviet Union and it's satellite states controlled mass media MORE than they controlled individual weapons.  That is because their people did not have a heritage of individual armament as we do here, so weapons per se,  were not a mass threat.  However, their people DID have histories of mass peasant rebellions, some of which were effective against their rulers in short periods of time.  Therefore, the communists who came to power on a wave of propaganda, leading to the largest mass murder in the history of the world, controlled ANY media , from radio to mimeograph paper as if it were plutonium. Being caught with more paper than was seen as proper could land you in the gulag for 'anti-Soviet activities', because in those days, paper was the foundation of mass media and NON-GOVERNMENT mass media would be a competing mass psychology. POLITICIANS ROUTINELY MURDER THOSE WHO EVEN ATTEMPT THAT.

Who are the 'fiends' of today" ? // "terrorists", "counter-revolutionaries", "racists"... pick an enemy of the politicians - the titles don't need to make any sense to be effective. // How about Anonymous - the unknown , yet VERY effective hackers who regularly penetrate government computers and post the contents to the internet for everyone to see, think and decide for themselves? Or the evil and dangerous Jullian Ansange - that horrible abuser of women, teller of state secrets who endangers us all because of his exposing things done in darkness.  //Thank you Big Brother for protecting us.// Don't get me wrong, I know personally of the REAL & GENUINE need to protect sources and methods for national security.  I also know that it's prudent to be skeptical when silly politicians who are total moral reprobates, take it upon themselves to try to pass anti-free-speech legislation to save us from porn. . .   Barney Frank, protecting me from porn? 

What is wrong with this picture?   While we're on the topic - How is having some TSA slug fondle wives and children under color of law,  even remotely possible?  It' because we're presently defeated in this psycho-political ( I would say 'spiritual' war.) We're being 'protected' from the evil bogey-man of the present age: the Islamic terrorists - who are only a tool, being used to set the stage for the war against the real enemy. (do YOU have a mirror?)

This has gone on long enough, but remember: the field of communications has many facets: mass media, limited group/team broadcast/net, and point to point to name a few. The larger the effect on the control of the minds of the "masses" the more that the politicians will do to control it.

de RadioRay ..._ ._
//Someday I must learn to be paid by the word . . . //    :D

"When we cannot do the good we would, we must be ready to do the good we can."  ~ Matthew Henry


"What is wrong with this picture?   While we're on the topic - How is having some TSA slug fondle wives and children under color of law,  even remotely possible?  It' because we're presently defeated in this psycho-political ( I would say 'spiritual' war.) "

That answers my question, and it is the main reason I prep.


April 14, 2013, 10:55:52 am #11 Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 02:08:49 pm by Joe
Instilling fear in the public that something is bad, opens the door to create laws that take away or limit rights and privacy, that is the simple bases of psycho-political atleast as I see it in the U.S. This was started and has worked since the 30's or earlier. Current hype "guns kill kids" = "limit, register, ban, then confiscate". "Preppers are crazy no one needs to have that much food" = "outcast in society, reporting of location by non preppers, confiscation of goods to pass out to those who didn't prep. the list goes on with presious metals, using cash instead of credit cards, they have left radio so far alone. But when the time comes I can see them saying something along the lines of "does you neighbor have a large antenna in there back" "That antenna is giving off bad radiation and is hurting your family" "We need to get rid of all these radio, It is a antiquated technology that is no longer needed". We are already licensed so part of the data base is created, then they will cancel license, then fines and confiscation.

Based on what I have learned from older family members have a couple "cookies" laying around for them to take and avoid conflict.
But hide the bag !!!


I haven't participated as much as I would like lately, a family crisis has absorbed me pretty completely.  But I check occasionally and had some thoughts I wanted to share fwiw.  I know, and add 5 bucks and it's worth a cup of coffee, if that ;). 

The Clandestine Radio Operators book, discussed on this forum I found an interesting and enjoyable read, feeding some interesting 'what if' types of thoughts.  It is not, today, of course, ww2 era, and technology marches on, communications 'efficiencies' via microprocessors, or the perceptions of such, have moved far beyond the simple circuitry of a wireless device, such as a Norcal 40, HW8 or a Rockmite.  (And so has the required power requirements!).

I have seen the referenced articles, posted on the survival blog, and john galt fla. in the past, I've seen some inaccuracies in thinking on articles on Survival blog, but I'm sure it's well meaning.  Interesting piece on Cnet, regarding Drones, and the focus on higher than HF freqs. 

If you like his content or viewpoints, JohnGaltFLa published an audio file last October on the value of shortwave and MorseCode and JUST DO IT!

He is a strong advocate for having shortwave capabilities, at least.

Recent history seems to still suggest there might be some creative usage for simple ham radios.  During the first Gulf war, for instance, ham radios played some part during the hositlities for the Kuwait resistance, dispite modern dependence on satellite radio communications.

scroll down for ham radios, and then 9K2DZ about 2/3 into the article, goes into how satellite radio was augmented by ham radio. 

A documentary also exists on 9K2DZ, and mentions the confiscation of ham gear.

Last voice from Kuwait documentary:

Good for thought if nothing else.  There is not here, and history never repeats in the same way but the memes seem to repeat with annoying regularity.

Thinking on registration and confiscation, at least for myself this well worn anecdote wears true: "if yer not using the gear now, you won't be able to use it when/if you need it".  Don't know how to use it without being registered with a callsign.  Then becoming known as using it. 

Perhaps, as was suggested in an earlier post, a few 'cookies' laying around for "donations" while the good stuff is able to be stashed when needed is not a bad idea, just in case. 

..yeah, and 5 bucks gets ya a cup of coffee ;)



Mr. Underhill -

I'd like to olsten to that file, but the link gives me a file not found error.  Are you able to re-check this link, please?  I reeeeeeeeeeeealy like radio!!!   :D

>de RadioRay ..._ ._
"When we cannot do the good we would, we must be ready to do the good we can."  ~ Matthew Henry

White Tiger

April 14, 2013, 06:06:41 pm #14 Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 02:54:51 am by White Tiger
The sentiment Joe referenced, and the Kuwaiti Story Underhill linked, are the thing Im talking about.

But a question/concern is beginning to percolate in the back of my brain...anyone who's read the recent posts/QST Magazine updates knows the FCC is really beginning to crack down on nuisance fools on certain frequencies...but two things that trouble me about those stories are; A) The use of direction finding technology,and the relative ease the FCC field offices had in discovering these folks B) the (seeming) increase in prosecution and stiff penalties/fines for these obvious rule breakers. I don't disagree with the policing of these particular offenders, but after re-reading the Sedition Act (another Woodrow Wilson era piece of legislation), and understanding (now) how the current Patriot Act actually harkens BACK to the old Espionage & Sedition Acts - my concern is only increasing!

The Patriot Act...specifically: "Section 215 which permits the FBI to search for ?any tangible things? connected to any U. S. citizen who the FBI believes may be involved in terrorist activities..." Such activities may even involve First Amendment protected acts such as participating in non-violent public protests...and under the "tangible things" aspect of the's would certainly not be exempt.

Could be that I just finished reading "Going Home" by A. American (the "A" stands for "Angery"). Not giving anything away, but military direction finding, coupled to use of helicopters, seemed to be pretty easy to accomplish in the question is: is it that easy?

It won't change me from prepping, but it might change some aspects of how I prepare...
If you're looking for me, you're probably looking in the wrong place.